Posts: 67264
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: My naive questions
November 16, 2014 at 11:45 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2014 at 12:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-from
(November 15, 2014 at 1:57 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: From the original texts Islamic scholars think that the holy spirit is female. The creative force. Christians agree. -to........
(November 16, 2014 at 10:19 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Well the best we can deduce is the sex of the words. Same goes for the masculine connotations. Is God male? ... Of course not, but those are just the assignations we apply. It's how our languages work.
Progress.  Even if we did what is that supposed to signify? Does a spirit-o have a dick whilst a spirit-a does not? Or is this, rather than informative discourse of the nature of a holy spirit - neglected discourse on the arcana of culture and mechanics?
If, for example, you described a holy spirit as female, or used "feminine traits" - does this mean that a holy spirit actually is female or has "feminine traits"? Or, rather, might it mean that you perceive females (real women, existent beings) to have these traits as a group, and that in expressing a divine narrative you found the language evocative of the underlying concepts the idiom is based upon, and therefore useful? As an example you can try for yourself. If you wanted to describe god as a parent, the "perfect parent" how would you go about doing so? Would your language be predominantly feminine or masculine (or do you think that it would be neuter)? No wrong answers, obvs.
"For verily god doth attend all of your ballgames". Am I describing the actions(or traits) of a god...or am I describing a feeling, an internal experience -about /in the periphery of/supportive of the larger concept of- a god. Is the idiom descriptive of god or is it informative of my state of mind and cultural designation/baggage? In either case is god male or female - can that be inferred from my comment? Should we (supposing this sort of stuff geeks us out) accept this attending of ballgames as a trait (whichever sex we assign it) or should we give obvious and blunt consideration to the idiom that the author used as a vehicle for god?
As a side note, did you make that original statement from the position of a "christian outsider", or do you also agree that the holy spirit is female, as christians have apparently agreed?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: My naive questions
November 16, 2014 at 4:45 pm
We're talking past each other it appears Rhythm. You don't appear to disagree with my original statement. You keep repeating what I'm saying, using other words. My eyes are bleeding. I hope you don't mind if I excuse myself. Happy Christmas.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: My naive questions
November 16, 2014 at 6:30 pm
December already?
Clearly I'm getting great value out of this vodka.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 6851
Threads: 76
Joined: October 17, 2012
Reputation:
31
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 1:51 pm
(November 14, 2014 at 3:55 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: I can prove my wife exists.
I can prove my job exists.
A better analogy for your choice of the Christian religion is if you married a woman but you've never met her. No one else you know has ever met her either. You don't know for certain where she lives exactly but you believe she's out there somewhere. You have some letters allegedly written by her that were handed to you by someone else. That's the only "evidence" you have that this person you married is even real.
You also have a job too but you don't know where it is that you work. You believe that your job exists and someday you'll get paid for it. Someone told you that you've been hired by some other mysterious character that they in turn have never met but you have no evidence that you're really employed. Ah, the atheist tag team, or bait and switch if you prefer.
My analogy was fine considering this given from the OP:
Let`s assume you become convinced there has to be a God who watches over everything you do.
Whether it's reasonable to become convinced of god's existence is not at issue. OP made such conviction a given.
Posts: 13901
Threads: 263
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 1:58 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 6:30 pm)Stimbo Wrote: December already?
Clearly I'm getting great value out of this vodka.
I have seen the "holidays are coming" coke advert, which is the traditional start of winterval.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 67264
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 2:03 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 4:45 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: We're talking past each other it appears Rhythm. You don't appear to disagree with my original statement. You keep repeating what I'm saying, using other words. My eyes are bleeding. I hope you don't mind if I excuse myself. Happy Christmas. Doubtful, as I mentioned from the very start, I think this is a case where you are unwilling to stand by your own statement in any way under concentrated criticism. I do not agree with "christians" that the holy spirit is female or feminine, or even that it is described as such. You've assiduously avoiding taking a stance. We aren't talking past each other....-you shit and ran.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 2:56 pm
Quite the contrary. I explained how your objection worked to support what I said. Christians agree with Islamic scholars of the original texts. The words used indicate a feminine sex. There really is nothing more to it than that. You cited the Islamic misunderstanding of the Christian faith which isn't a part of Judaism and so beyond the scope of their interest. It bears no relevance that they got that wrong. You don't agree. Great. Show me some evidence, I'd love to see it. Maybe I can change my mind too. My stance is stated and unshaken. Not for the want of information. You're triumphalism is misplaced.
Posts: 67264
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 3:04 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2014 at 3:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Except that I maintain that they do not indicate a feminine sex. Understand? I cited an islamic -nothing- because I would never cite an islamic -anything- as authoritative or argumentative.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 3:05 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2014 at 3:08 pm by fr0d0.)
A blind assertion right?
An apologies, that was DP.
Posts: 67264
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: My naive questions
November 17, 2014 at 3:06 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2014 at 3:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I've elaborated, so...no. If you disagree, feel free to point out where I went off the rails.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
