If

[Little Rik]

Very nice picture.
It really make a lot of sense considering the situation but what about my question?
Can the matter have any brain or consciousness to write something in this forum?
By the way this question was related to whether the universe made of matter can run itself or not.

[Davka]

My brain is currently sending electro-chemical impulses to my fingers, which are striking specific keys on my keyboard. Those keys are, in turn, sending electrical impulses to my computer, which sends them to a server on which this forum is hosted.

The type you are reading exists in physical form as a series of magnetically-encoded analogues to zeros and ones. It exists in physical form as a pattern of light and dark pixels on your screen. And it originated in physical form in my physical brain, which is a meat-computer holding approximately the same amount of information as all the electronic computers in the world combined. Because the meat-computer which generated these text characters is far more complex than the Internet - is, in fact, more complex than anything else we have so far encountered in the Universe - it not only holds much of the information which I have assimilated during my lifetime, it also gives rise to the emergent property we know as "consciousness."

NDEs are not what you keep claiming they are. When our brains are shutting down and near death, there are a number of physical activities occurring which are quite unusual in day-to-day life. These activities include oxygen deprivation; endorphin-induced euphoria; noradrenaline production; and faulty sensory information.

History tells the same story over and over: People form irrational explanations for unknown phenomena, driven by our brains' evolutionarily-programmed need to know. Later, science develops the tools to explore these phenomena in detail, eventually discovering the actual explanation. This has happened over and over again, and every single time, the explanation has tuned out to be natural. Not once has a mysterious phenomenon been studied rigorously and turned out to have a supernatural cause.

Therefore, the most rational and probable explanation for any unknown phenomenon is likely to be natural rather than supernatural. We're in the midst of studying NDEs, and so far all the explanations are - wait for it - natural.

How Near-death Experiences Work

[Tonus]

Yeah, I thought it might go over his head, but even if he'd understood he would have replied with something inane.

[Surgenator]

@Darva, there is 43 pages documenting how Riketto can't fanthom how he can be wrong. Riketto's response will involve an unrelated analogy, shifting the burden of proof, and way too many emoji. Have fun.

[Davka]

@Darva, there is 43 pages documenting how Riketto can't fanthom how he can be wrong. Riketto's response will involve an unrelated analogy, shifting the burden of proof, and way too many emoji. Have fun.

It's writing exercise, if nothing else.

[Little Rik]

My brain is currently sending electro-chemical impulses to my fingers................

Please Davka WOULDN'T BE BETTER if you start from the beginning and say................AFTER I DECIDED TO start an action..........my brain is currently sending electro-chemical impulses to my fingers.............
Ok. now you can continue.

................which are striking specific keys on my keyboard. Those keys are, in turn, sending electrical impulses to my computer, which sends them to a server on which this forum is hosted.

Very good.
Now you are saying that everything started from your brain although i point out that they really started from YOU which you confuse for the brain.

The type you are reading exists in physical form as a series of magnetically-encoded analogues to zeros and ones. It exists in physical form as a pattern of light and dark pixels on your screen. And it originated in physical form in my physical brain, which is a meat-computer holding approximately the same amount of information as all the electronic computers in the world combined. Because the meat-computer which generated these text characters is far more complex than the Internet - is, in fact, more complex than anything else we have so far encountered in the Universe - it not only holds much of the information which I have assimilated during my lifetime, it also gives rise to the emergent property we know as "consciousness."

Now you enter the swamps and your body is stuck in the slough.
1)Talking, talking but you haven't demonstrated that the matter is able to start any action by itself and this is related to the fact that atheists believe that the universe made of matter can run without God.
2) Talking talking about the marvels and wonders of the mind as if the mind could start any action by itself or without YOU that decided to start the action.
3) Talking about consciousness when you haven't got a clue what the consciousness is as demonstrated when you think that the starter of the action is the brain.
Sorry Dav but this is a total disaster.

NDEs are not what you keep claiming they are. When our brains are shutting down and near death, there are a number of physical activities occurring which are quite unusual in day-to-day life. These activities include oxygen deprivation; endorphin-induced euphoria; noradrenaline production; and faulty sensory information.

All these activities do not explain how a blind person can see things perfectly during the NDE.
Again all your talking means absolutely nothing.

History tells the same story over and over: People form irrational explanations for unknown phenomena, driven by our brains' evolutionarily-programmed need to know. Later, science develops the tools to explore these phenomena in detail, eventually discovering the actual explanation. This has happened over and over again, and every single time, the explanation has tuned out to be natural. Not once has a mysterious phenomenon been studied rigorously and turned out to have a supernatural cause. Therefore, the most rational and probable explanation for any unknown phenomenon is likely to be natural rather than supernatural. We're in the midst of studying NDEs, and so far all the explanations are - wait for it - natural.

Wrong again.
Science has never explained how a real guru can send someone into samadhi just by touching his-her head or how someone can insert a knife into his flesh without feeling any pain and how the hole close as soon as the knife is taken out.

[Tonus]

All these activities do not explain how a blind person can see things perfectly during the NDE.

You're one of those people who thinks that hallucinations are things we see with our eyes. That's cute.

[Little Rik]

All these activities do not explain how a blind person can see things perfectly during the NDE.

You're one of those people who thinks that hallucinations are things we see with our eyes. That's cute.

People think that it´s all about "the last hallucinations of the brain before the light goes out for good" and about "drugs".
I can´t influence people who haven´t had their own NDE, because they are sceptics. Human beings don´t believe in anything before they´ve experienced it themselves. I wouldn´t believe in anything either before I´d been through it myself. So I understand their scepticism. But they are WRONG!!!!

From Maria (ex atheist)

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experienc...7s_nde.htm

[Davka]

My brain is currently sending electro-chemical impulses to my fingers................

Very good.
Now you are saying that everything started from your brain although i point out that they really started from YOU which you confuse for the brain.

"I" am an illusion; an emergent property of my brain. Every single night, my brain has to shut down for cleaning (literally cleaning. The glymphatic system flushes toxins from your brain as you sleep). During most of that time, "I" cease to exist. Only during the relatively brief periods of REM sleep is their brain activity which is interpreted as "me" doing things - this is called "dreaming," and none of the things that "I" do during that time are even real.

All of us, every single human being, gets a daily reminder that, without the brain, the "self" does not exist.

1)Talking, talking but you haven't demonstrated that the matter is able to start any action by itself...

I don't have to. The Universe demonstrates the connection between matter and consciousness on a continual basis. All you need to do is look.

2) Talking talking about the marvels and wonders of the mind as if the mind could start any action by itself or without YOU that decided to start the action.

I don't need to demonstrate anything at all here. I'm merely observing reality, and reporting on what I see. You are the one making an unsupportable claim; it's up to you to demonstrate that this mysterious thing you call "me" and claim exists separate from the brain. The burden of proof is on you.

I see physical reality and emergent properties. I can show them to you.

You claim magical meta-physical woo. Prove it.

3) Talking about consciousness when you haven't got a clue what the consciousness is as demonstrated when you think that the starter of the action is the brain.

You appear to be the one with no clue as to what consciousness is. You're operating on nothing more than objective emotional information. There is no basis to your position whatsoever. You're clinging to an unfalsifiable belief.

All these activities do not explain how a blind person can see things perfectly during the NDE.

They don't. Their brains tell them that they are "seeing." Their brains translate all the available sensory input into images - kind of like the way your brain can "retro-fit" the sound of your alarm clock into a dream. It's an illusion, a hallucination of sorts.

It is essential to note that these instances of "the blind seeing" during NDEs happen only to those individuals who were once sighted, and then lost their sight. This particular illusion has never been observed in an individual who is blind from birth. Why not? Because the brain has no idea what "seeing" is, and therefore cannot create that particular illusion.

Science has never explained how a real guru can send someone into samadhi just by touching his-her head

Of course it has. It's the same phenomenon that Benny Hinn relies on for his 'slain in the spirit' sessions.

You, sir, are plainly ignorant of the science.

"I am ignorant of the science" does not equal "science has not explained." Get thee to a University and learn.

or how someone can insert a knife into his flesh without feeling any pain

Sure it has. Again, your ignorance does not constitute an argument.

and how the hole close as soon as the knife is taken out.

That part is simply parlor-tricks. It's more a matter for James Randi than for Stephen Hawking.

[Tonus]

People think that it´s all about "the last hallucinations of the brain before the light goes out for good" and about "drugs".
I can´t influence people who haven´t had their own NDE, because they are sceptics. Human beings don´t believe in anything before they´ve experienced it themselves. I wouldn´t believe in anything either before I´d been through it myself. So I understand their scepticism. But they are WRONG!!!!

From Maria (ex atheist)

http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experienc...7s_nde.htm

If you did not have an NDE, yet believe that they are more than just a function of the brain, you have proven Maria wrong. Or did you not understand what she is saying? And need I even point out that Maria has essentially invalidated any opinion she has on things she has not experienced by claiming that one cannot believe without having direct experience?

Need I go on, or is that sufficiently embarrassing for your case?