God is a Terrorist.

[Brian37]

You are going to gloss over all the violence and hate in that book and make excuses for it just like every moderate and liberal of all three religions. You merely like the idea of having a god, that is why you are willing to ignore all the nasty parts to cling to this dictator god character.

[Spooky]

Why don't you address the explanation and argument. I don't want to repeat myself.

---

Suppose I don't want or need "higher blessings" just a lack of suffering? God is apparrently making a huge assumption that trumps free will.

I don't think peace and tranquility to our nature is possible without these higher blessings. If we were created upon another nature, then it would be. But we chose to want the trust and this nature before coming to this world, and now that we carry it's obligation, we cannot turn our backs on it.

This according to the explanation of the Quran I am aware of. 

All I can convey is my perspective. You are free to disagree. 

Defending the bible by using the quran is like treating a broken bone with a baseball bat.

More of the same doesn't really solve the problem.

[Mystic]

Patience. With love, patience becomes easy.

Serenity over the things we cannot change, courage to change what we can change, and wisdom to know the difference.

يَا بُنَيَّ أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ وَأْمُرْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَانْهَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَاصْبِرْ عَلَىٰ مَا أَصَابَكَ ۖ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ عَزْمِ الْأُمُورِ {17}
[31:17] O my son! keep up prayer and enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and bear patiently that which befalls you; surely these acts require courage/honor;

[FatAndFaithless]

Quoting the koran to atheists is sure to help your case.

[Mystic]

Imam Jaffar:


The beginning of patience is bitter, but its end is sweet for some people; but for others both its beginning and end are bitter. Whoever enters it at its end has entered it. Whoever enters it from its beginning has left it. A person who knows the value of patience cannot bear to be without it.

 

[Brian37]

Patience. With love, patience becomes easy.

Serenity over the things we cannot change, courage to change what we can change, and wisdom to know the difference.

يَا بُنَيَّ أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ وَأْمُرْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَانْهَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَاصْبِرْ عَلَىٰ مَا أَصَابَكَ ۖ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ عَزْمِ الْأُمُورِ {17}
[31:17] O my son! keep up prayer and enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and bear patiently that which befalls you; surely these acts require courage/honor;

No with gullibility you cling to bad claims, that is not love, that is your gullibility not understanding it is merely your own wishful thinking. 

I pined after a girl in middle school with the same intensity you seem to want to defend an ancient comic book. Difference is that girl was real and really rejected me, because she existed. You don't have to worry about God rejecting you because he is not real so it does not matter how much you want him to be real.

I grew up, you have not.

[Mystic]

And elsewhere states:

Whoever meets affliction with an open heart, showing patience with tranquility and dignity, is counted among the elite and his portion is as God said,


إِنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ
Surely God is with the patient. (8:46)

[Pyrrho]

Well first, I think good actions create realities. Higher realities, both in the soul and how can God be experienced.

What does that mean?  What are "higher realities?"  Is there not one earth, one sky, one God, one reality?

  I don't think God can bestow higher ranks without freewill and praiseworthy action.

Why not?  Is your God not omnipotent?  Do you worship a limited being?  Why can't he just make us how he wants us to be?

While I am asking, does God have free will?  If so, does that mean that God does bad things?  If not, then having free will does not explain why people do bad things.

Love has a hidden wisdom. When tried with veils, trials, tribulations, and it's patience is "to God do we belong" and it's tranquility "and to whom do we return", the blessings of God descend from a higher realm, created, that cannot be otherwise created.

What does that mean?  Do you mean that if you torment a woman, that is a sign of your love for her?  Being nice to her is, to your way of thinking, not loving her?

If that is what you mean, it would be better for God to not love us, so that maybe he would not torture us.

Trying us by evil, and by wanting to battle against the evil ourselves, and the hidden evil forces, and rejecting them and cling to his light, his handhold, bestows a special honor.

The Divine sword of God in the trial can bestow high honor and bring one to ranks otherwise and stations and inherit beauty and glory that cannot be inherited without such a trial.

Why not?  Is the God you worship not omnipotent?  Is it limited in what it can do?

Now I believe none of us should be put into this trial, unless, we wanted it, and this what Quran says, that the human chose the trust while the heavens and the earth where to scared to carry it.

But we chose it because we loved God, and this was a trial before coming to this world.

Are you expecting us to believe that you believe that you remember having a chat with God before you were born, in which you told God that you wanted to be tested?  And that all of us had this same conversation?  Do you not know how insane that sounds?  I mean, literally insane.

For my part, I never chose any such thing.  No one asked me, before I was born, whether I wanted to be born or not.  You are just lying here, or are a lunatic.

That said, in the design, God is going to try us by good and evil, blessings and afflictions.

The blessings that come from afflictions are unique, Imam Jaffar is quoted to have said is misbahal shariah:

Affliction is an adornment for the believer and a mark of honour for the man of intellect, because facing it directly needs steadfastness and firm-footedness, both of which confirm belief. The Holy Prophet said, 'We, the company of the prophets, are the people who have the hardest trials, then after us come the believers, then the others like them.'

Whoever tastes the food of affliction while under Allah's protection enjoys it more than he enjoys Allah's blessing.

So you are saying that Muslims are masochists?  That they prefer pain to pleasure?  That they want bad things to happen to them?

Again, do you not realize how insane that sounds?  How insane that really is?

He yearns for it when it is not there, because the lights of blessing lie under the balance of affliction and trial, and the balance of affliction and trial lies under the lights of blessing. Many are delivered from affliction and then destroyed in blessing. Allah praised none of His bondsmen, from Adam up to Muhammad, until He had tested him and seen how he fulfilled the duty of worship while in affliction. Allah's marks of honour come, in fact, at the last stage, but the afflictions themselves come in the beginning.

Whoever leaves the path of affliction is ignoring the lamp of the believers, the beacon of those near to Allah, and the guide for those on the right path. There is no good in a slave who complains of a single trial preceded by thousands of blessings and followed by thousands of comforts. Whoever does not show the patience required in affliction is deprived of thankfulness in the blessings he receives. Similarly, whoever does not give the thankfulness owed for blessings is denied the patience owed in affliction. Whoever is denied both of them is an outcast.

If God values patience so much, why did he not create only people who are patient?  Or are you saying he is too stupid to be able to do that, that he has to make a bunch of defective things in order to get a few that turn out the way he wants?

You really seem to be worshiping an incompetent buffoon.

Ayyub said in his supplication, 'O Allah, verily seventy comforts and ease did not come to me until You sent me seventy afflictions.'

And Wahb ibn Munabbih said, 'Affliction to a believer is like a bit to a horse and a halter to a camel.' Ali said, 'Steadfastness in relation to belief is like the head to the body. The head of steadfastness is afflictions but only those who act righteously understand that.'


------------


God designs the universe in a way that tries us. As the creator with ultimate wisdom, and because we belong to him, he can try us because his will is benevolent.

That makes no sense.  If he were benevolent, he would not want to harm us.  Saying that he has the right to harm us because he is benevolent is incoherent nonsense.

No one else has the right to try people by evil, because this is a rank that belongs to God and belongs to him because he is the ruler of the system, which has an over all good purpose.

When God punishes nations and destroys them,  it occurs with his knowledge that they were doing mischief in the land, oppressing others,  and he comes to warn them to halt that behaviour. When the clear proofs come, miracles, clear wisdom, clear message, and they still deny....then God has the right to punish them for their injustice and rid the world of their evil.

He isn't wronging anyone.

However what the Bible states the Israel did to the Phalestines is not something that God would allow,  for humans are not allowed to do such things and declare they are bringing judgement of God.

God being the designer, and has a benevolent will in bringing the most worthwhile purpose, can try us by evil. No creation is however allowed to try another creation by evil and God's will is to entrust humanity with the struggle through his help to establish justice, peace, goodness, and mercy.

By the struggle for good against evil, the struggle against corruption, and the striving in God's path, we can earn ranks that make us closer to God, and inherit praise that belongs to God otherwise we can't.

So you can say God is a terrorist for creating life and death or for destroying oppressive nations, but it is baseless, and is because you think the rank and rights of God as the same as humans and thinking the designer and creator is bound in the same way we are bound, but we aren't allowed to try people because we don't have the exalted wisdom and high rank of God and because we don't own creation.

We show patience to his trial because we belong to God and his high rank, thereby receiving blessings from this honoring of God, but how can a creation be shown this patience when it doesn't own us, when showing patience to it doesn't raise us rank as it's pleasure is not our goal.

So this is the wisdom of "Give news to the patience,. Tose who an affliction occur to them say God do we belong, and to him do we return". These are whom God's blessings are upon..." (Suratal Baqara, 2nd chapter of Quran).

---

I think the best thing to do is, if he created us with the ability to think on our own, not punishing us for doing just that. Assuming he is the one who gave us free will, which it seems he either didn't, or doesn't understand how free will works. We have the ability to disagree, and come up with ideas of our own, btu using that ability in any way is considered sin. Even if we disagree on things like equality.

I don't think God punishes us for wrong thinking, but it's rather when the truth becomes manifest, and the falsehood of Satanic and evil forces defeated, if we prefer the falsehood then and follow it, we hate the truth and God's pleasure, which is hate of his light, and we neglect his favor and path, becoming ungrateful and stubborn.

I'm not saying this is true of you guys. But it is something to take caution regard. 

---

The world is designed so we can attain the honor of the following verse:

يَا أَيُّهَا الْإِنْسَانُ إِنَّكَ كَادِحٌ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ كَدْحًا فَمُلَاقِيهِ
 
O human, you are to strive to your Lord a striving so that you meet him.

Why doesn't God just meet us if he wishes to do so?

It makes no sense for God to give us a test.  Since he (supposedly) made us, he should know before the test is made whether we would succeed or fail.  He would, if he were good and not an incompetent maker, only make those who were good.  Making bad people is a sign that God either willfully makes bad people, in which case it is God's fault and God should accept the total blame; or God is an incompetent maker, who is unable to avoid making defective people in trying to make good people, in which case it is God's fault and God should accept the total blame.

Being the creator of all, everything that is wrong is God's fault.  Either he willfully made it bad, or he is incompetent.  But either way, it is all God's fault.

[Iroscato]

And elsewhere states:

Whoever meets affliction with an open heart, showing patience with tranquility and dignity, is counted among the elite and his portion is as God said,


إِنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ
Surely God is with the patient. (8:46)

Stop quoting long-dead people, and use your own damn mind to objectively analyse the content of your holy book. Use that cranial supercomputer gifted to you by evolution to actually think, not just blindly follow. The more you look, the more you realise the Emperor has no clothes.

[Mystic]

Peace to you all.

1. The nature of goodness, I think has to have will in it. I think forcing will is not goodness really although we can be forced to be nice to each other or to love God. Therefore you need freewill to create goodness, and praiseworthy is only there because of freewill.  However, we can ask God's help that will make it easier to do good, and react to that help by embracing the heavenly blessing.

2. God has freewill, but being perfect he acts to the most perfect will. We being limited, may not act according to the best will. God cannot create absolute beings because he alone is the living eternal independent necessary being. Everything else cannot but be created to be limited.

3. God tries us so that we receive blessings in patience, fortitude, serenity, courage, and honor.  This type of patience is a certain type that earns God love and is a type of praise inherited and beauty in the unseen. The reward of this patience is patience and honor and beauty from God. These blessings descend with serenity that we belong to God and to him do we return, belittling this world and putting our hopes in the place of proximity to God. God also distances us from the lower blessings and the lower desires, to that of a higher desire, and a higher purpose through suffering.

4. Praises and beauties in actions all have different realities depending on their reality and nature. To make us inherit a beautiful praise, we need to do it. Of course, the help of God is sought, and his forgiveness over our evils, so that we don't fall, and that we achieve by his help a great will and nature.  But there is no force in the religion.

5. The covenant before coming to this world is a topic of Quran. I don't recall it or anything, but it makes sense to me, and I feel I have a pledge towards God.

6. The reason why we cannot meet God I don't know how to explain but it's due to the nature of truth of the creation of the heavens and earth in his name and his face, and this by which we are measured by and get value by, and we would burn were God to unveil his veils. This is sort of like saying why doesn't God create a bunch of Gods like himself. But that's not possible because what comes in time must will freely, and utmost perfect will cannot be forced. The ranks of have to be tread with will and the higher realities and degrees attained by striving. Here we cannot meet God without striving for purification and total detachment from falsehood and darkness.

7. God is more worthy of our praise while we are more worthy of our evil. Though ultimately God created both good and evil and you are right he is the cause but that is not to blame him and say it's a fault.

Peace and blessings of God upon you.