Euthanasia for non-terminal illnesses

[Razzle]

Why are so many people in favour of voluntary euthanasia for the terminally ill, not also in favour of it for people who are expected to live decades with their conditions? Surely it's even more important to allow it when someone is facing decades of suffering than it is when they've only got a few months to put up with anyway?

I have thought about killing myself many times due to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which is incurable. A minority make a complete recovery (so in one sense they are "cured", but there is still not "a cure" because it's only a minority) but most will always have significant symptoms. If I ever do kill myself, I would want to use Dignitas, not an unreliable Do-It-Yourself job that might give me new disabilities, or land me in a psychiatric ward, and I don't want to have to do it alone, in secret, leaving my body for a family member to find. Where is the sense in forcing people to do that?

Much of the harm caused by suicide is entirely preventable: the trauma of finding a body unexpectedly, guilty thoughts about why they didn't tell you what they were thinking of doing, sadness about not being there when they died, or worrying about how slow or unpleasant the death was. Not to mention all of the money and resources governments would save if they stopped wasting resources on forcing people to stay alive in prison cells and in psychiatric wards. We wouldn't have such piss-poor psychiatric services around if they didn't prioritise suicide prevention above suffering prevention. We wouldn't in the UK have psychotic and manic patients locked up in protective police custody or strapped down in the emergency room for days because there are no beds available in the psychiatric ward.

Most of Dignitas' customers are not terminally ill, and a lot of people, including the non-religious and people who don't believe in an afterlife, seem to be against that. Why? I suspect it's a left-over unexamined cultural assumption from the Abrahamic religions, an unspoken dogmatic belief that conscious life is an inherent good (any other attitude would be insulting to the creator god), and therefore it's only acceptable to end it when it's not got long left anyway. The word "life" has a positive connotation in English, and the word "death" has a negative one. Why? Both in themselves are entirely neutral concepts: life because it can be either good, bad or neutral, and death because it can only ever be neutral, no one suffers when they're dead. Life is not in fact an inherent good. It might seem that way to happy people, but that's entirely subjective. The value judgement that happy people make about life is no more objective or reflective of reality than the view of suicidal people. If you feel that life is good, you're right. If you feel it's bad, you're also right.

[Exian]

I totally agree with you, but I'm more than willing to be swayed in another direction with some good counter points.

[Iroscato]

First of all, don't you fucking DARE end your life because of OCD. You ever feel like you want to, you damn well see a professional about it and get the help you need.
I read that bit and had to act. Your condition is part of you, but it does not define you. Don't ever think that it does, there is more to you than that. You are a human being, you are unique, and you can do incredible things with the unspeakably rare gift that has been given to you - life. PLEASE don't waste that untapped potential by thinking you are rendered null and void by OCD.
I know it's hard, beleive me. I had extremely severe OCD as a child and still very bad as a teenager. I was bullied non-stop both at home by my mother and at school by other kids and even teachers. I was pretty fucked in the head for a long time after that period of my life and I still carry the scars today.
I would have to switch lights on and off dozens of times a day until it 'felt right', I would get stressed and start freaking out if I saw two light switches next to one another that were at different positions. I would spill my pens and pencils on the floor and arrange them by size, colour, even sharpness, sometimes doing it for hours on end. I would brush both side of my teeth every night the exact same number of times, and if I lost count I would start all over again. I would avoid all cracks in the pavement and if I ever stepped on one I would hop the rest of my journey to the next 'safe spot' like a car or building.
So I know what you go through, and I know how horrible it is. I got some treatment for it, and removed most of the stress from my life, and nowadays I'm more or less free of it, though I still have a few rituals and tics. I'm one of the lucky ones, but that doesn't mean it won't ease off for you either, given appropriate treatment and therapy. It CAN be helped and suicide is the absolute LAST thing you should ever consider.
Sorry for ranting a bit, but this is very close to the mark for me. All the best.

[Razzle]

Hi Irascato, thanks for sharing. I am on medication as of late last year, and it did help a lot after a few weeks, I stopped thinking about death for over a month. It fluctuates a lot for me, and I had another bad bout recently, so I increased the dose and it's better again. It does raise the possibility that it will keep coming back a few weeks after every dose increase until I can't increase it anymore. It's also too early to know for sure whether the improvement is actually just coincidental. So looking at the long-term future - I've been quite well for the last few days and I am hopeful it will continue - I still consider this a political issue with personal significance to me.

[Minimalist]

I generally agree that people should have control over their own bodies.

[abaris]

I generally agree that people should have control over their own bodies.

Yeah, they should. But there's a very fine line to walk. We have that unspeakable past where Hitler used the concept of Euthanasia to get rid of mentally ill persons as well as what was called asocial elements.

The checks and balances for Euthanasia have to be tremendous so that no politician or lobbyist can lay their dirty hands on it. I guess for some health insurers it could be a wet dream come true if allowed ot run unchecked.

[c172]

I have spina bifida. I walk with crutches and "AFOs", which are leg braces. I make able-bodied folks like most of you uncomfortable just by entering the room. I sit down on a seat at the airport and within seconds, the whole row of ten interconnected chairs is cleared.

The folks at Not Dead Yet, a website about disability advocacy (you can Google it. I WILL NOT link them here), make it their main point to fight tooth and nail against assisted suicide/euthanasia. They are so paranoid about the able-bodied majority wanting to kill us off.

I say it's absolutely cruel to not be allowed expert help in ending one's life if there's no use (and every inconvenience) to living. People are going to kill themselves, even with non-terminal things like SB, anyway. What's sad is not such a person cashing in their chips, but having to do so with the proverbial wire hangar in the alley.

I'm just sorry that before Brittney Maynard (who WAS terminal), I had never even thought of the issue.

[Dystopia]

I agree with you @abaris, moderation and carefulness are key concepts to every policy. Euthanasia is good for people to have control over their own bodies but it is also a repressive tool for oppressive regimes.

[Pyrrho]

I am totally pro-suicide, for anyone who wants it.  For those who want a philosophical explanation or justification, see:

Hume on the issue, which covers the ground very well:

http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/hume-e...rary-lf-ed

Seneca, for those more poetically inclined, who is also quite good:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_lett.../Letter_70

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_lett.../Letter_77

Right now, my life is good.  But I say, FUCK YOU to every goddamned bastard who wants to try to stop me from killing myself if and when I want to do so.  It is my life, not yours, so FUCK OFF you goddamned bastards who want to control my life.

I think the above expresses my feelings adequately, but if anyone needs more, I will be happy to oblige.

To Razzle:  Yes, I agree, it is leftover bullshit from Christianity that gets asshole motherfuckers to want to try to control your life and not let you decide when you get to die.

[Iroscato]

As for where I stand...ah jeez, it's a tough one for me.
I respect the rights of individual over their own body at every turn, so I suppose I wouldn't stand in the way if somebody really wanted to take their own lives. But only after every other option has been exhausted, if there is no hope of recovery or treatment available.
Depression is treatable, and manageable under the right circumstances. Death can be seen as the most inviting option, and I can see why. But I do not like what it would say about us as a society if we handed depressed people the proverbial loaded gun. I couldn't speak for other non-terminal illnesses, as I have not lived that life. But I will say that as a subject and as an option, it must always be submitted to close scrutiny and careful regulation.