Why be good?

[Huggy Bear]

38 responses overnight. Thank you.

I won't be able to respond to all of them before heading off to work, but let me says this:

I'm not asking whether atheists can be good people or whether they are good people. Despite much of the rudeness and foul language directed at me (and others) in this forum, it should be obvious that atheists may strive to be kind, tolerant, generous and respectful toward others. And they do this because they recognize that "right" and "wrong" behavior is real and not theoretical.

What I am asking is: what is the BASIS for objective moral behavior? Where does it come from?

If some feel that they have already answered, my apologies; however, I re-phrased my OP based on a quick scan of a few responses.

I will try to get through all of the posts as quickly as time permits. Sorry for the delay.

You need to define what moral behavior is specifically.
Everyone seem to default to murder, but guess what? there is a law against murder and that's an effective deterrent for the majority of people.

There's at least one honest atheist here...
http://atheistforums.org/thread-32313-po...#pid906588

And yeah, I don't commit murder because I AM afraid of the death penalty. That and I obey the laws because Prison Orange isn't my color. I have a list of five people who I would happily off right now if I knew that I could get away with it. So your argument is invalid.

I think we can all agree that lying and adultery are also immoral, there just (generally) aren't any laws against them. How many are guilty of those?

[Thumpalumpacus]

If there is no God, then there is no hell; and if there is no hell, then there are no ultimate, eternal repercussions, good or bad, for how we live out our mortal lives. Of course, atheists insist that people should be "good without God."

But why? If God does not exist, why be good?

Both empathy and practicality.

A normal, well-balanced human vicariously feels pain at the suffering of another, and therefore tends to avoid inflicting it.

Practically, being a nice guy keeps one in the good graces of other humans with whom one must live and work.

Karma is not a metaphysical process, to me; it's a material phenomenon, and it can be summed up in three words: assholes make enemies.

[rexbeccarox]

There's at least one honest atheist here...
https://atheistforums.org/thread-32313-p...#pid906588

And yeah, I don't commit murder because I AM afraid of the death penalty. That and I obey the laws because Prison Orange isn't my color. I have a list of five people who I would happily off right now if I knew that I could get away with it. So your argument is invalid.

Wait. Because someone admits to having murderous rage, they're the person you point to as being honest?  Do you think I'm being dishonest if I say I have no desire to murder anyone?

[Jenny A]

There's at least one honest atheist here...
http://atheistforums.org/thread-32313-po...#pid906588

And yeah, I don't commit murder because I AM afraid of the death penalty. That and I obey the laws because Prison Orange isn't my color. I have a list of five people who I would happily off right now if I knew that I could get away with it. So your argument is invalid.

Really?  You think that most people don't commit murder because of the death penalty?  I'm sure that's true in some cases, but most people don't commit murder because they've never wanted to.  And more because they know it's wrong.  If law were the only reason people didn't murder, there would be many more unsolved murders.

I think we can all agree that lying and adultery are also immoral, there just (generally) aren't any laws against them. How many are guilty of those?

Do you equate murder and lying on the moral scale, because I, and I think most people do not.  Not all moral infractions are equal.  Not to mention the fact that adultery still happens where it is illegal.

Lying is illegal under a variety of circumstances:  testifying under oath, fraud, false advertising, etc.  They all happen anyway.  And creationists lie like no group I've ever seen.  Is lying for god okay?

[Thumpalumpacus]

But why? If God does not exist, why be good?

First and foremost, if you have to ask "why", can you even consider yourself a good person?

Think before you make stupid posts.

His religion teaches that he, and all other humans, are "fallen", and unworthy. This is just one more example of the self-loathing inculcated by Christianity.

Thinking is part of being human, it is what separates us from every other living thing on this planet.  If you cannot properly think before stating something, then you must be a theist and/or a republican.  

Forgive me while I point and laugh at these simplistic overgeneralizations. I wonder if you even realize that you've said here that theists and Republicans aren't humans ... or if you understand the significance of dehumanizing your opponent, as has happened through history.

Your shrill lack of nuance undermines what cogent points you might have.

---

What I am asking is: what is the BASIS for objective moral behavior?

Morality is subjective, not objective. Your question is loaded, but I'll try to answer it anyway: there is no basis for objective moral behavior.

[Jenny A]

But why? If God does not exist, why be good?

First and foremost, if you have to ask "why", can you even consider yourself a good person?

Think before you make stupid posts.

Thinking is part of being human, it is what separates us from every other living thing on this planet.  If you cannot properly think before stating something, then you must be a theist and/or a republican.  

You didn't start by asking if I did think of myself as a good person.  Nor did you explain why YOU think of yourself as a good or bad person.  Think, before you post.

That said, there are many republicans and theists, who do a better job of thinking before they speak than the average atheist or democrat.  And make no mistake there are republican atheists.  There are brain-dead, murdering, pedophile, atheists.   Not believing in god is rationally correct decision given the lack of evidence of a god or gods.  It isn't a recommendation as a perfect human being.

[Huggy Bear]

There's at least one honest atheist here...
https://atheistforums.org/thread-32313-p...#pid906588

Wait. Because someone admits to having murderous rage, they're the person you point to as being honest?  Do you think I'm being dishonest if I say I have no desire to murder anyone?

Have you ever participated in Gossip?

There's at least one honest atheist here...
http://atheistforums.org/thread-32313-po...#pid906588

Really?  You think that most people don't commit murder because of the death penalty?  I'm sure that's true in some cases, but most people don't commit murder because they've never wanted to.  And more because they know it's wrong.  If law were the only reason people didn't murder, there would be many more unsolved murders.

I think we can all agree that lying and adultery are also immoral, there just (generally) aren't any laws against them. How many are guilty of those?

Do you equate murder and lying on the moral scale, because I, and I think most people do not.  Not all moral infractions are equal.  Not to mention the fact that adultery still happens where it is illegal.

Lying is illegal under a variety of circumstances:  testifying under oath, fraud, false advertising, etc.  They all happen anyway.  And creationists lie like no group I've ever seen.  Is lying for god okay?

My point is, if you consider lying for instance, to be immoral, then there is not one person who is moral, whether christian or atheist. The difference is, one realizes this...

[rexbeccarox]

What does participating in gossip have to do with what I asked you?

If your only example of someone on this site being honest is them admitting to murder, is it your contention that I'm being dishonest when I say I have no desire to murder anyone?

[Jenny A]

My point is, if you consider lying for instance, to be immoral, then there is not one person who moral, whether christian or atheist. The difference is, one realizes this...

There are degrees.  No one is perfectly moral, but a person who lies occasionally (particularly social lies rather than lies to cheat or defraud) and a person who murders are miles apart.  And most people consider inflicting disproportionate punishment or condemnation for moral infractions to be immoral.

[Pyrrho]

What does participating in gossip have to do with what I asked you?

If your only example of someone on this site being honest is them admitting to murder, is it your contention that I'm being dishonest when I say I have no desire to murder anyone?

Are you sure you are not feeling a murderous rage build up inside you right now?