What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Godscreated]

Seems to me you have no understanding or distinction between what feels good for the majority as opposed to what feels good to the minority.  After all, killing feels good to the minority, but no one is going to base feeling good on that.  Killing was considered bad in primitive times when survival was essential.  For you to demean goodness by attributing your bigoted bias to it is not only intellectually dishonest but I am certain it would also make Jesus cry.

I never mentioned killing, so why did you? How do you know killing was considered bad in primitive times, were you there. I also never gave a bigoted remark and real can't see how you could possibly have seen one either, could it be a feeling of guilt, just asking not implying.

GC

[Silver]

I never mentioned killing, so why did you? How do you know killing was considered bad in primitive times, were you there. I also never gave a bigoted remark and real can't see how you could possibly have seen one either, could it be a feeling of guilt, just asking not implying.

GC

Along your line of thinking, were you there when Jesus existed; therefore, how do you know he was real?

Yes, I am absolutely following the precise line of reason you used on me.

You don't like it?

How about you start thinking about what you believe or start reasoning properly, you fucking dumbass.

Honestly, I do not have time for dipshits like you.

Try being smart for once.

[The Grand Nudger]

I am sure a lot of Muslims are pleasing God. But people who kill others are not pleasing God, regardless of their religion.

Your certainties regarding god don't carry much weight with me..but here again, there are those who would disagree.  If a person truly believes that a god, who is good by definition, has ordered them to kill (and isn't that story familiar) or desires the death of some other group or person (yet another story which should be familiar to you)......are they being immoral when they act upon this?

[Catholic_Lady]

Morality is something that is actually a reality rather than just a subjective thought or idea that can change from person to person.

Where does it exist?  What does it look like? How do humans access this objective existence?

Simply saying something doesn't make it true.  You'll need to demonstrate your claim.

I think morality comes from the fact that life (especially human life) is sacred. And life is sacred because God made it sacred, and told us that it is sacred.

And so hurting/destroying something sacred is always objectively and definitively wrong. That's why I believe we must treat all life with dignity and respect. Because living things have a certain dignity to them. And that is why I believe we must treat humans especially well above plants and animals, because God made our lives at a higher level than those of other living things of the earth.

[The Grand Nudger]

Can life not be sacred to me as well? Can I not agree that hurting sacred things is wrong? Seems to me that I can, and it seems to me that I can do so while conceding the simple fact that this is my subjective appraisal of morality? Aftyer all, my morality being subjective doesn't make it any better or worse on that count, nor does it make what is wrong.... "wronger", or right "righter".

You and I both agree, and here again......if there were no other reason..would that not be enough for the two of us? It;s dignity, apoprently, that you appeal to when you consider morality. Well, dignity is not the command of a god, is it?

(by the by, there are no levels...life isn't a video game)

[Silver]

Life is life because it has nothing to do with anything except making it what it is for ourselves.

[Catholic_Lady]

You question has been asked many times, your objections have been heard many times.  Residual hostility, most likely (and that's ignoring that a significant portion of it may just be -perceptual-).  Going down this "hostile atheists" road is, also..something that's been done before......but so what if the audience is hostile...are they wrong?

I apologize that you have heard my question so many times before. I appreciate all you who have taken the time to respond anyway..

I would never say "hostile atheists" because I don't believe in the generalization of people. I was simply referring to some of the statements themselves made to me as seeming hostile. And I only said this as an explanation to another poster, I did not mean to seem like I was complaining about it.

---

That's the problem, don't you think?

Logically, society progresses and changes.  If god doesn't, that means he's myth.

I don't think it's a problem. I think that the general moral truth of "treat other the way you want to be treated" has always existed and has never changed. Which is basically what all morality comes down to - just treating others with love and dignity no matter what.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's fine, how would you know what nitwits have been up to on our boards in the past, amiright..lol? Only cautioning, as I understand that it's not entirely their own fault, as it would not be yours. They've been lied to by people they trust both about what is, and about what other people are or believe, or think, or justify their actions with (even what they -can- justify their actions or opinions with). That you've even asked this question is, frankly, ludicrous...and deeply insulting. You don't actually need any of us to find the answer...you're perfectly capable.

After all, you're doing morality the same way that we are.

[Longhorn]

*walks into thread*

O_o

*backs out slowly*

[Silver]

Catholic_Lady
no matter what.

Nah.  There is no such thing.

That is the progress of society.