What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Thumpalumpacus]

So it's still your position that since I quoted you in my post, that I was referring directly to you, even after making it very clear I was speaking generally and not about you personally?

No. My position is that by taking my words out of context, and battering others with them, you're abusing truth.

As you can see, you quoted me in your own post.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30219-po...#pid816960

I wasn't aiming that comment at you directly, and I should have made that clear; my apologies.

Hold up! did you just state that the comment in your post which quoted me wasn't in fact directed at me?
Why then can you not comprehend when I stated that my post wasn't directed at you personally?

Also, if you or anyone has any evidence of me being dishonest, post it, and well compare that evidence (which you will be hard pressed to find) against the evidence I have on you....

The difference is that when you pointed out my fuck-up, I apologized to you directly and publicly.

That is called integrity. It's no wonder you're lost in this exchange; you have no conception of such a thing as integrity, or adhering to the truth. When I'm shown wrong, I admit it, and apologize for any offense tendered. You, on the other hand, not only practice that which has given you offense, you refuse to accept apologies (i.e. you refuse to extend forgiveness) even when apologies are given.

Some Christian you are. Tell me again how your faith makes you a good man.

[Ravenshire]

I believe morality comes from God.

Almost everyone who touts objective morality does. It's fallacious thinking even within a religious framework though.

[Catholic_Lady]

I believe morality comes from God.

Almost everyone who touts objective morality does. It's fallacious thinking even within a religious framework though.

I respect your opinion.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Fuck, Huggy, you've got your head so far up your own ass...

The very thing you're accusing him of being a hypocrite of, he apologized for and said he shouldn't have done. Had you said that, there would be no issue.

Your childishness is just on a level all its own.

Except I've made it clear multiple times that I wasn't speaking  of him personally,  yet I'm being disingenuous. If I had referenced him personally then I would indeed own him an apology.

You did reference me personally, dumbass. You quoted me. But you don't have the balls to apologize.

I like how he can submit a profanity laced post full of insults yet I'm the one perceived as childish

Yes, because maturity relies on word choice, rather than insight.

Dumbfuck.

[Thumpalumpacus]

By talking about slavery and not saying one tiny thing against it, in the only opportunity he would ever have it seems, Jesus is at least saying it is "Ok" in my opinion. The bible is very quick to tell you what to do and what not to do on other matters. His refusal to do so here is easy to understand when you consider that slavery was simply not seen as immoral back then.

Like I said, though He didn't specifically address slavery, He told us "love your enemy," and "love your neighbor as yourself." and "treat others how you want them to treat you."

He probably didn't specifically address rape either, as well as other specific things. But like slavery, I think that's a given... considering his commandment to love.

I don't think any honest person could read the entire life of Jesus and come out of it with the take way that He condones enslaving people.

The idea that one of his instructions to slaves was not "Rise up, because the Good Lord will strengthen your right arm against the slave master", but rather, "be meek and obedient to him like you are to me" speaks volumes about not only his alleged views about slavery -- that it was acceptable because this world is meaningless, only the next one counts -- but also to the mindset he wants in his own believers.  Believers are not to question the master.  They are not to exhibit will of their own.  They are to accept and obey commands given them by the master, on pain of eternal punishment.

Of course such a god would endorse slavery in this world ... it is, after all, exactly what he has planned for you.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Also, I just wanted to point something out: there's no way in the world such a vigorous debate as this one would be supported on a religious website.

Kudos to AF.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Catch that?

Moses permitted the people to divorce but Jesus commanded us to step up our game.

Same with slavery. It was permitted, but now it's not. We've been molded by God.[/b]

Which is another way of saying that what was morally acceptable before is no longer acceptable.

How's that moral objectivity working out for you, little buddy?

[Randy Carson]

I don't doubt that there is chemistry/biology behind it. But I still think it was planned that way by God, so that we would have some notion of objective morality.

... but what of those of us who don't have a notion of objective morality?  Did God just skip us?

No.

In his epistle to the Romans, Paul makes it clear:

Romans 1:18-

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


Well, you see that God has placed an understanding of truth within the heart of every person. Consequently, those who disobey are without excuse.

[Thumpalumpacus]

And let's not kid one another: CL's avatar has got more than a few of the guys here dialing the aggression in their responses to her way, way down.

I dialed my rhetoric down with her compared to, say, you, or Drich, or Sluggy, because she wasn't a raging twat.

You'd do well to take notes.

[Randy Carson]

There is no greater love than to die for somebody.

Absolutely wrong!!!
It takes nothing more than a moment's quick decision to sacrifice your life for some cause.

There are a lot of ex-military people in this forum, apparently.

Try explaining to them how their buddies who stepped into the line of fire made no real sacrifice.