What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Nope]

I defended his point simply to show he neither condones rape, nor thinks God condones rape. That seemed very clear to me, but people were still accusing him of it for some reason, so I figured I'd clarify. It's not my argument, it's not what I think happened, so I have no answer for your question. Ask Randy.

Well for me if he believes the stories in the old testament are true and takes the position that if god was ordering it than it wasn't really rape, then in my eyes he is condoning rape. He is trying to get around condoning rape by pretending that kidnapping a woman, forcing her to marry you and having sex with her, is not rape.

.

This. Randy is trying to convince us the obvious rape of the war captives is somehow not rape so he can say he doesn't condone rape. That is why I keep trying to get him to answer the question about modern soldiers.

We would condemn a group of American soldiers who forcibly married young virgins after destroying their village. The bible is describing a similar situation.

[abaris]

That is why I keep trying to get him to answer the question about modern soldiers.

What kind of answer would you expect? He most certainly would take the easy way out in saying, they're not marrying their victims.

[Nope]

And my point is that God, as an extremely powerful being, would have known a million ways to get the Israelites to accept all the morals at once.  Hell, he could have just poofed it into their brain.  

What makes the vomit rise in my throat is that both you and Randy seem to think that forcing a woman to share a bed with her rapist for a lifetime, probably bearing his children, is somehow acceptable under any context.

Then swallow hard because it gets even better.

The woman taken into an Israelite home as a wife was fortunate. There, she would hear the Law of Moses and of God's covenant with Abraham, the father of the nation. She would learn of Adam & Eve, of Noah, of Jacob's journey to Egypt. She would learn about Pharoah and the mighty deeds performed before Pharaoh. She would learn of the Passover, the manna that fed the people in the desert and of all the feasts that God had instituted. She would learn of Moses and the burning bush as well as the 10 commandments given to Moses. Above all, she would learn to worship the true God instead of the lifeless idols and gods of other nations.

She would be a very lucky lady, indeed.

So, Randy is not condoning rape? Read Faith No More's comment. He said, basically that it makes him want to vomit that a rape victim might be forced to share her bed with her rapists. Randy's response was For Faith No More to swallow harder because Randy believes that the victim is fortunate to be exposed to the correct god.

[Longhorn]

Then swallow hard because it gets even better.

The woman taken into an Israelite home as a wife was fortunate. There, she would hear the Law of Moses and of God's covenant with Abraham, the father of the nation. She would learn of Adam & Eve, of Noah, of Jacob's journey to Egypt. She would learn about Pharoah and the mighty deeds performed before Pharaoh. She would learn of the Passover, the manna that fed the people in the desert and of all the feasts that God had instituted. She would learn of Moses and the burning bush as well as the 10 commandments given to Moses. Above all, she would learn to worship the true God instead of the lifeless idols and gods of other nations.

She would be a very lucky lady, indeed.

You are the single most disgusting person I have ever spoken to, Randy.

It's hard to believe the horrible shit you're prepared to say in defense of your god. I sincerely hope you don't believe a word of the above, or else I feel sorry for your wife.

[Cyberman]

Given some of the competition on this board alone, curiously absent from this thread, Randy ought to feel honoured. Or ashamed. One of those three anyway.

[robvalue]

I...

Thank you Randy, you do all our work for us. You show exactly how blind adherence to religious doctrine can utterly rot a person's morality. I hope you know what dishonesty you're presenting and don't really believe the vile nonsense you spout.

Exhibit A. One would hope it's an undercover atheist. A damn fine job, if so. Now excuse me while I go wash my eyes out.

[Thumpalumpacus]

So, Randy is not condoning rape?  Read Faith No More's comment. He said, basically that it makes him want to vomit that a rape victim might be forced to share her bed with her rapists. Randy's response was For Faith No More to swallow harder because Randy believes that the victim is fortunate to be exposed to the correct god.

... i.e., to be raped mentally as well as physically.

[abaris]

So, Randy is not condoning rape?  Read Faith No More's comment. He said, basically that it makes him want to vomit that a rape victim might be forced to share her bed with her rapists. Randy's response was For Faith No More to swallow harder because Randy believes that the victim is fortunate to be exposed to the correct god.

Yeah, he can file for moral bankruptcy right here and now. Not only is it disgusting, it's also ignorant because at the same time this was the law of the land in Israel, right around the corner in Egypt, women weren't treated like cattle.

[Catholic_Lady]

Wait, wait...

If there is supposed to be this objective morality which comes from God that he has somehow implanted in us so we know things like rape and slavery are wrong, why was he implanting people at the time of Jesus with a different set of morals so that they clearly didn't think or know slavery and rape are wrong?

It just goes to show how messed up things were getting. Yes, I believe we are all born with a certain sense of right and wrong for big things like that, but if society teaches us differently, we become conditioned/brainwash to believe it's ok because we've never seen anything different.

---

I defended his point simply to show he neither condones rape, nor thinks God condones rape. That seemed very clear to me, but people were still accusing him of it for some reason, so I figured I'd clarify. It's not my argument, it's not what I think happened, so I have no answer for your question. Ask Randy.

Well for me if he believes the stories in the old testament are true and takes the position that if god was ordering it than it wasn't really rape, then in my eyes he is condoning rape. He is trying to get around condoning rape by pretending that kidnapping a woman, forcing her to marry you and having sex with her, is not rape.

From what I understood, he (randy) still belives those things are wrong and that God does not condone them. But believes God had to integrate Himself slowly, otherwise it wouldn't have made a difference.

---

Thank you everyone again for participating in my thread. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

My parents and little brother are flying down to visit for the next few days and they will be here this evening! I've been cleaning up and preparing the place for them, so I will be unavailable for the rest of today until next week. :-)

Thanks again, hope everyone has a great weekend!

[abaris]

From what I understood, he (randy) still belives those things are wrong and that God does not condone them. But believes God had to integrate Himself slowly, otherwise it wouldn't have made a difference.

Have you actually read the Randy quote Nope posted earlier on this page? There's not much room for a friendly interpretation of that one.

Also the argument of times being different doesn't fly in this case. While Yahweh supposedly taught the Israelites to be less harmful in their rapist attitudes, the Egyptians, who never heard of him, treated men and women pretty much as equals.