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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 2:20 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 2:25 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sure, you could argue it, but the god gambit won't strengthen (or weaken, really) the argument.
What inconsistency?
Again, I've conceded that they do not exist in the sense that you are looking to establish (at least, no more or less so than my right to remain silent does)....but since that's not my point of contention, nor is existence in that sense required for existence in toto, nor would the truth of your summary speak to the possibility or consistency of human rights any more than it speaks to the possibility or consistency of my right to remain silent........I'm not sure why you've yanked so hard on the wheel as to be having-this- discussion now......I don't mind, I'll follow along...but it seems like you might be leaving a soldier behind.....lol?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 2:35 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 3:35 pm by Regina.)
I'm all about everyone living the life they want to live, as long as whatever they are doing has no negative impact on anyone else and isn't causing massive irreversible damage to the environment.
I think that encompasses every human right there needs to be.
"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the road, and then getting hit by an airplane" - sarcasm_only
"Ironically like the nativist far-Right, which despises multiculturalism, but benefits from its ideas of difference to scapegoat the other and to promote its own white identity politics; these postmodernists, leftists, feminists and liberals also use multiculturalism, to side with the oppressor, by demanding respect and tolerance for oppression characterised as 'difference', no matter how intolerable." - Maryam Namazie
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 3:06 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I'm not defending that premise, it's what human rights proponents support ...I never argued that HR exist, I'm merely stating what supporters argue My sincere apologies. I get confused when people present the opinions of others in their posts.
Well, it seems that some of the most ardent atheists agree with my earlier statement: Inalienable human rights are incompatible with modern atheism. So I guess it's safe to say that atheism is un-American.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 3:17 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 3:06 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (July 16, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I'm not defending that premise, it's what human rights proponents support ...I never argued that HR exist, I'm merely stating what supporters argue My sincere apologies. I get confused when people present the opinions of others in their posts.
Well, it seems that some of the most ardent atheists agree with my earlier statement: Inalienable human rights are incompatible with modern atheism. So I guess it's safe to say that atheism is un-American.
You say that as if being unamerican was a bad thing 
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 4:43 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: I'm all about everyone living the life they want to live, as long as whatever they are doing has no negative impact on anyone else and isn't causing massive irreversible damage to the environment.
I think that encompasses every human right there needs to be.
The key question is who determines a "negative impact on anyone else"? That is very subjective.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 5:09 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 4:43 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: (July 16, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: I'm all about everyone living the life they want to live, as long as whatever they are doing has no negative impact on anyone else and isn't causing massive irreversible damage to the environment.
I think that encompasses every human right there needs to be.
The key question is who determines a "negative impact on anyone else"? That is very subjective.
I fundamentally agree, but probably not for the same reasons as you
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 5:25 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Dystopia Wrote: (July 16, 2015 at 4:43 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: The key question is who determines a "negative impact on anyone else"? That is very subjective.
I fundamentally agree, but probably not for the same reasons as you
And there is nothing wrong with that.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 5:33 pm
In the most basic sense we do not have inherent rights. A 'right' is a concept that had its provenience as our ability to think and form ideas evolved. Because of this, rights are fluid and changing, just like morality. However when taken into consideration under a snap-shot in time, these rights may be defined as universal but a look at how humanity has developed can easily pinpoint how the idea of rights being somewhat of a shape shifter. We have rights only to the point that they can be thought of and granted by a community.
I'm open to other forms of logic in the discussion though. 
**Crickets** -- God
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 5:39 pm
(July 16, 2015 at 5:33 pm)tonechaser77 Wrote: In the most basic sense we do not have inherent rights. A 'right' is a concept that had its provenience as our ability to think and form ideas evolved. Because of this, rights are fluid and changing, just like morality. However when taken into consideration under a snap-shot in time, these rights may be defined as universal but a look at how humanity has developed can easily pinpoint how the idea of rights being somewhat of a shape shifter. We have rights only to the point that they can be thought of and granted by a community.
I'm open to other forms of logic in the discussion though.
I find your view on morality changing or evolving very intriguing. If that is true then on what basis can we condemn any acts both existentially and historically. Do you believe morals are relative?
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 16, 2015 at 6:35 pm
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2015 at 7:00 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(July 16, 2015 at 6:48 am)Nestor Wrote: Do you believe in human rights? What do you include in these? What is it that gives anyone a right?
Remember, I DON'T mean legal rights. I mean something more, in nature, whatever that is, that entitles (is that the word I want?) a person to enjoy certain benefits, and that as a right it is others' duty not to impose or negate that right.
If you do not believe a person has anything like a natural, universal right, then how does that affect your beliefs/actions IRL circumstances when the issue of so-called violations (of life, liberty, property, etc.) comes up?
Personally, being a Christian, I believe the "rights" you are talking about are inherent rights assigned to us by God. 
If I did not believe these rights were assigned to us by someone higher, then I would not believe they were inherent human rights.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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