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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:10 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 10:56 pm)Chuck Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 7:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I just remember when I was in high school my text book for World History class actually made reference to Jesus as the man who founded Christianity. His name was also one of the key words under "important people to remember" at the end of the chapter. It was a public high school. Does that bother you?
I thought more atheists believed Jesus was a real man, just not who He said He was.
Hitler was undoubtedly also an important person to remember, just like Jesus. What is more, hitler deserves it more because he can be shown to have actually done the things he is known for. Does that bother you?
The point I was making is that a person whom many believe is completely fictional is in a public high school text book. I didn't know if that made some of you angry.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:15 pm
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2015 at 11:22 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(July 15, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 10:56 pm)Chuck Wrote: Hitler was undoubtedly also an important person to remember, just like Jesus. What is more, hitler deserves it more because he can be shown to have actually done the things he is known for. Does that bother you?
The point I was making is that a person whom many believe is completely fictional is in a public high school text book. I didn't know if that made some of you angry.
No, the myth surrounding the possibly fictional character had vast real life consequences we still live with. So the character became an important player in history. To deal with the consequences it is important to know the player, whether the character behind the player is fictional or not.
Btw, by describing Jesus more as Christian hagiography might paint him, and not as a neutral historian might see him, is an implicit acknowledgement that Jesus the plausible, if unproven, reality was unimportant to history. It was only Jesus the character that was important. So literally Jesus was nothing, the myth everything.
Not so with hitler. The real Hitler was actually vast important, not just the persona either his followers or his opponent would attribute to him, although those too have massive impact on history.
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:17 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 11:15 pm)Chuck Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The point I was making is that a person whom many believe is completely fictional is in a public high school text book. I didn't know if that made some of you angry.
No, the myth surrounding the possibly fictional character had vast real life consequences we still live with. So the character became an important player in history. To deal with the consequences it is important to know the player, whether the character behind the player is fictional or not.
Gotcha. Thanks for the response!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:23 pm
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2015 at 11:24 pm by rexbeccarox.
Edit Reason: sentence structure
)
(July 15, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 10:56 pm)Chuck Wrote: Hitler was undoubtedly also an important person to remember, just like Jesus. What is more, hitler deserves it more because he can be shown to have actually done the things he is known for. Does that bother you?
The point I was making is that a person whom many believe is completely fictional is in a public high school text book. I didn't know if that made some of you angry.
Depending on the context, it's very possible that I would get quite angry if I felt anyone was trying to teach my (fictional) kid any kind of woo. Mentioning Jesus as a *possible* historical figure and the effect on history Christianity has had, however, I'd have no problem with.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:29 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 11:23 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The point I was making is that a person whom many believe is completely fictional is in a public high school text book. I didn't know if that made some of you angry.
Depending on the context, it's very possible that I would get quite angry if I felt anyone was trying to teach my (fictional) kid any kind of woo. Mentioning Jesus as a *possible* historical figure and the effect on history Christianity has had, however, I'd have no problem with.
His name was mentioned just like any other historical figure. No mention of if being subjective to beliefs or anything like that.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:30 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 11:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 11:23 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Depending on the context, it's very possible that I would get quite angry if I felt anyone was trying to teach my (fictional) kid any kind of woo. Mentioning Jesus as a *possible* historical figure and the effect on history Christianity has had, however, I'd have no problem with.
His name was mentioned just like any other historical figure. No mention of if being subjective to beliefs or anything like that.
Was he mentioned as a "possible" historical figure, or a definite one? If the latter, I'd have a problem with it.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:33 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 11:30 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (July 15, 2015 at 11:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: His name was mentioned just like any other historical figure. No mention of if being subjective to beliefs or anything like that.
Was he mentioned as a "possible" historical figure, or a definite one? If the latter, I'd have a problem with it.
Mentioned just like any other person. Mentioned as the man who founded Christianity around 2000 years ago in the Middle East. Nothing about it just being "possible."
It happened forever ago, but I remember it very clearly because I was surprised.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:38 pm
Yeah... I'd have to say something about that. I don't really care one way or the other if the Christ was an historical figure, but I wouldn't want it being taught definitively to my kids. I wouldn't want them to be taught he wasn't one either, though.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:39 pm
Does "historical" = " actually as described".
If the only jesus was the wizard in the bible, then ........you tell us?
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RE: JESUS <3
July 15, 2015 at 11:42 pm
(July 15, 2015 at 11:39 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Does "historical" = " actually as described".
If the only jesus was the wizard in the bible, then ........you tell us?
Haha. I think historical just means that he was a real person. Not specifying whether He actually was who He claimed to be.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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