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Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
#69
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
(August 15, 2015 at 2:12 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(August 15, 2015 at 10:23 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Yes it's the reasonable conclusion. The effects of supernatural influence is obvious right now. It's just to Atheists, they assume supernatural is illogical to assume simply by taking their disbelief in souls, God, spiritual world as if it's some sort of rational, while these things are really the rational things to believe in because we are souls and can see we are such, we inherit actions, and the influence of both guiding and misguiding forces is obvious on the hearts, and the battle between good and evil taking within our souls is obvious to those trying to be sincere to God but find influence is pushing them away and towards, and there struggle and tug war in their souls between the light and darkness.

That is a straw man, MK.  Atheists don't deny your reasoning because it deals with the supernatural.  This atheist denies your reasoning because I see the natural reasons that you do not.  It's the reverse, actually; you deny the influence of natural forces.  Are you familiar with the way that the psychology of bias works?  There is a veil upon people's hearts, but it's a natural consequence of the psychology of bias.  Your argument is an argument from ignorance, that you can't see how natural reasons account for the phenomena, therefore you conclude that they don't.  That's fallacious reasoning and an unreliable conclusion.
It's not simply that I cannot see how bias or natural causes cause this, it's because of reasoning I rule it out. For example, take the verses leading up to 4:59. Even Tabatabai who put much thought into it and was aware of the hadiths of Ahlulbayt about it and was shia (ie. believed in the 12 Imams and even said the hadiths are mutuwatir), could not see the flow and you can read his tafsir on the verses over here: http://www.almizan.org/ . Read how he interprets the hadiths which to me manifest the clear flow.

And it's not only Sunnis who don't see it, and it's another thing if they don't believe in it and whole other thing that they cannot even see the possible flow.  But this is true of converts and Shias as well. Most converts and Shias don't see the flow. The flow of course once the reflecting destroys the locks seems too obvious not to see, yet it's not seen.

The same is true of those chosen ones inheriting book, the place of Harun to Musa hadith, etc... It's not only Sunnis who don't see these, but converts, as well, as Shias in general aren't aware while the hadiths of Ahlulbayt do clarify much, it's still not registering. For example, I haven't see any shia or shia scholar make the argument "except there is no Prophet after me" implies it's taking about a comprehensive station of Harun with respect to Musa that includes Prophethood which the Prophet had to clarify did not have. It's obvious, it's clear...and the Shia bias to be prove Ali...so what's preventing people from clarifying this when they believe it is about Ali's successorship?

Another thing is the verse about miracles, no Muslim would want to believe the illogical recitation, but that's what they recite, as the illogical recitation would mean the religion is wrong. Yet this what all classical and current tafsirs interpret as, and it's the reason I left Islam primarily. What does bias have to do with that then?

Take another example I haven't mentioned. The verse of purification meaning that the only thing God desires to keep away from Ahlulbayt is the uncleanness while he purifies them a perfect purification is something all lovers of Ahlulbayt would believe about them and want God to honor them in Quran with such words. And upon logical reasoning, it's the only recitation that makes sense. Yet even shias are not aware of these, in fact, my whole life, I haven't come across on Shia who had that belief about it. It's something I had to see myself when I read hadiths that it was response to Mohammad (saw) saying to bless his family.

And bias can cause people not to believe in something, but totally be oblivious to it, to not even consider it as a mere possibility as such in many of these cases, it's something else all together. And not even being able to remember one verse on the same topic of another verse while reciting Quran over and over again, cannot be explained simply by bias.

Bias plays a factor with respect to some of these, but it cannot explain it. And bias plays the opposite role (ie. it should push for them to see it) for some people in some of these cases, yet there is something else preventing them from seeing.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran. - by MysticKnight - August 15, 2015 at 3:45 pm

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