Defining "Atheism"

[Tiberius]

Adrian – there’s really no need to raise your voice at me, even metaphorically. I never broke your rule about dictionary definitions even before you invented it, so please don’t start talking ‘loudly’ at me about some Minority Report-style precrime that I’m supposed to be about to commit when you’ve never provided a morsel of evidence that I’m even a one-off offender against your new rules and regulations, either now or retrospectively. Thank you.

There really is a need to "raise" my voice when you are continually being moronic and going back to these stupid points about redefining words. I have provided evidence *every* time you have asked for it, and you have quickly tried to shy away. I'm not going to list the links again; I've provided them to you on several occasions now. Now you have a simple choice: stop trying to redefine words, or go to some other atheist forum where people don't mind you bastardising the English language.

Luckily for me you may have the power to make false allegations against me here, but you don’t have the power to exclude me from the ‘philosophical community’, whatever elitist little imaginary club that may be, but even if you did have such a power, that wouldn’t stop me talking about philosophy. You can either be involved in the discussion or not. The choice is yours.

It isn't an elitist club, nor is it imaginary. Just like the scientific community (which is made up of scientists doing research), the philosophical community is made up of philosophers thinking about various questions and using logic to form arguments. Are you active in this field? If so, please give me a link to your latest essay, as it appears in a philosophical journal, or other academic institution.

We can of course have a conversation about the etymology and evolution of the terms atheism and theism but I don't think it's going to help much here.

The subject is defining "atheism". I can't fathom how you think the etymology and evolution of the terms isn't relevant...it's not only relevant, it gives the answer to the question posed in the subject.

Let's talk about modern language. Now you might need to check your dictionary to confirm this, but I’m pretty sure I’m right when I say that sticking the word ‘believe’ in parentheses after the word ‘subscribe’ doesn’t give it the same definition. But by using this device you merrily exclude the possibility that the discussion of atheism might not always compulsorily involve the concept of belief. That’s my point. A debate can be a debate between two positions and is not automatically ‘impossible’ just because the two positions don't meet the criteria of a belief. Please explain why you think they should.

A belief is a state in which a person holds a certain proposition (statement) to be true. It is impossible to have a debate without discussing in some way, the "truth" value of what is being discussed. If you think you can find an example of a debate which doesn't discuss the truth of a statement at some point, then please enlighten me.

It would be helpful if you could also stop asserting that you've provided a proof without then actually stating what the proof is, as to be honest it comes across as evasive.

I gave you the proof...twice. Are you having trouble reading?

"To have any middle ground between "believing" and "not believing" is a violation of the 3rd law of classical logic, the law of the excluded middle. That is the argument."

You say that one cannot make any statement without either having a belief or not having a belief in it. Is it not possible to exclude the concept of belief from the discussion? The third law of classical logic only applies to the concepts that are in play. If one chooses to exclude the concept of belief from the discussion, one can still make a statement that god does not exist.

No, because by making the statement "god does not exist" one is making a statement of knowledge, and knowledge is a subset of belief (true, justified, belief). Even if Plato is wrong, I have yet to see a definition of knowledge that doesn't involve belief, given that it is a blatant contradiction to say that you have knowledge of something, but do not believe it is true. If you know something is true, you cannot possibly believe it is not true.

To clarify here, it matters not if the concept of belief is being discussed; belief itself is mandatory for any discussion, because all ideas that can be discussed are at some point based on beliefs of the people discussing them. You cannot have a discussion without belief coming into play, even if that belief isn't discussed at all.

By all means argue with me but please could you refrain from raising your voice, swearing at me, or mixing up your contributions as an equal participant in a discussion with your role as a dispenser of discipline.

Tell you what, I'll stop "raising my voice" when you stop joking around and accept that words are defined, standardised, and used by people because it helps with communication. People shouldn't be free to make their own definitions up and expect people to follow them as some kind of exercise in bastardising the English language.

In short, if you can abide by the rules and actually contribute some decent discussion to the topics here, instead of nit-picking at various words and claiming they mean things that you dreamed up the night before, I'll stop calling you on it. Simples!

And while you're at it why don't you get rid of that stupid Hipster Hitler avatar? It's only funny if it's ironic.

Why don't you get rid of that stupid Titanic avatar? When you understand why you don't want to, maybe you'll understand why I don't want to get rid of mine...though I'm not counting on it.

Also, I made a lovely response to your assertion that atheism isn't the opposite of theism, and I backed up my reasoning that it is with understanding of the Greek stems from which the words come. Please respond to it, or I'll assume you've accepted that you were completely wrong.

I leave you with the Oxford English Dictionary definition of atheism:

"Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a God. Also, Disregard of duty to God, godlessness (practical atheism)."