so a couple weeks ago i had a small debate with an old friend and i came across some interestinf claims that this guy made about atheism and i just wanted to share
one to point out was the claim that atheists or non-believers are trying to "cover up" the truth
and the second one about all religions are proof that there must be a god, it supposedly all ties up.
I replaced the real names with Person and xR34P3Rx is obviously me.
Thoughts? perhaps point out something i might have missed?
one to point out was the claim that atheists or non-believers are trying to "cover up" the truth
and the second one about all religions are proof that there must be a god, it supposedly all ties up.
Quote:Person: feeling great
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Just finished a test today. i pray to god i did well since my strength and intelligence is his possession and not mine.
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xR34P3Rx: dude wtf? you have control over your self. you are intelligent on your own
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Person: of course I do, I've always had, but with god in my side I could learn more than what i could ever accomplish on my own and I thank him for that.
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xR34P3Rx: you kinda just contradicted yourself. you said you don't have that possession. and you don't need to rely on some god to help you thru life, is childish ...
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Person: well that is my mistake, but its true that god does decide to give you strength and intelligence. and its not just some god, its THE ALL MIGHTY GOD, who created heaven and earth as well as each and every one of us. yes it could be childish, but that would reflect on the fact that i am a child of a king.
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xR34P3Rx: ahum.... and how can you prove that he exists...?
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Person: well, you are here and i am here, and also that the world is still intact and functioning. miracles happen every day and just the fact that there wouldn't be such thing as our existence if it wasn't for him. common sense if you think about it.
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xR34P3Rx: ok umm, when you see a computer, is that evidence that xR34P3Rx exists?
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Person: I've known you since you went to church and yes I've seen you not too long ago outside of church, but no this wouldn't be evidence. the real question is if its still you, the same xR34P3Rx:, i'm speaking online to?
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xR34P3Rx: huh? when did you see me at church? u spying on me? - and yes its me, well the person itself but with a different mind. Im atheist now. and to the question. correct! its not evidence of me! so... where am i going with this? im explaining the fallacy of the whole "look at the trees, look outside, its evidence of god!". ummm no, sorry, just like in the computer analogy, life is evidence of life, it doesnt tell you who, what when or even how it was created, but science is working on that. But, just because someone like me or science cant explain what made life, it doesnt make you, a god believer right by default.
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Person: you see what you just said is one of largest misunderstandings the world has now. the world just looks for satisfaction and convenience in order to cover up the truth that the world has been created. The government today allows all these believes to flourish since they don't want to admit that god actually exists, because once they do, they have to admit it to the public. its not just a coincidence that the world appeared out of nowhere or if there was a big bang, someone had to create it. science is just the cover up for humanity to create its own beliefs and erase what actually did happen. i mean do you actuallly believe we come from monkeys ! science cannot finish up what it started and cannot find true evidence of such beliefs because they are NOT real.so tell me, did you turn atheist due to convenience or is there an empty feeling inside of you?
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xR34P3Rx: no no no no..... NO, no one is trying to cover up anything! There just is no evidence for god. and no, im not saying im atheist "so i can siinnn *goofy face*", no one does that, thats christian logic. and if you cant prove gods existence then you have no room to claim who created it, and not everything needs a creator, that leads to the building analogy theists make, the whole "look at that building! someone had to create it!", yes it needed a creator, but nature happens on its own, so it doesnt need a creator. this is one of my forum posts about a lot of these things - http://atheistforums.org/thread-23249.html
and no no no no NOOOOO, science does not say we came from monkeys! we have a common ANCESTOR with monkeys, we are closely related to them. youtube what real evolution is, youll be amazed of what it actually is and not what creationists say. and what is there to gain from being atheist? NOTHING, im just another person who doesnt believe in god, heres an article about similar stories from the bible in other religions, almost all religions have a god, some world flood, and some demigod that walked on water and was doing magic tricks - http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/pda/thread.php...
What are your favorite Creationists/Theists arguments?
atheistforums.org
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xR34P3Rx: and science is all about evidence, you use science in a daily basis! computers= thank you physics!, toasters=thank you physics again!, Pythagorean theorem=thank you greek minds!. how can you say that science isnt real but you use it daily, youre pretty much living in denial.
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Person: this is a very good productive conflict. this may just do my day . dude, you should have really read the bible when you were around because all of what you are telling me can be proven wrong in this one historical document that i live upon. yes we did have ancestors, but they were human just as we were, and we are all similar due to the fact that THERE IS A CREATOR!! knowingly creating everything different but to perfection. the idea of evolution is that over time we change and adapt to our surroundings. adaption is real, but we don't change dramatically from a specific life form to another. WE are not pokemon!!. the world hasn't been around for millions of years either, it has only been around for several THOUSAND, we coexisted with everything that has walked the earth, and yes this includes dinosaurs. science is real, i understand that, but its a trait given to man by god to use wisely.Now with everyone rebelling against him they throw whatever they can to cover up this truth. Nevertheless, God loves every single one of his creations and he wants the best for them. Sin is real , and the price for sin is death, but not the death you think of when you get old or die of disease( however, it does get shorter the more you sin). its a second death, where your soul and spirit become lost for eternity. So even when you don't gain anything from being atheist, you can gain eternal life if you admit to god that you were wrong and surrender.
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Person: also, about your belief about the religions and demigods that they created, that just rests my case on how everything is related. they took it from the truth and mixed in their own beliefs on what really happen. That sounds like cover up to me.
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xR34P3Rx: lmfao, ommmgg dont tell me you think we coexisted with dinosaurs and rode them??? lolol, science proves that there is no way the world can be less than 10k years old. what about the ancient monuments and stuff that were created thousands of years ago? the evidence is in ur face but you just choose to deny it because of some book. and i havent read the bible entirely but theres a ton of fucked up things that your god does, but hes labeled as "good". and oh yea, just give god the credit for everything, sure i knew you were going to pull that off on me. but if you cant prove his existence to begin with, nothing you say can convince me... so giving god the credit for everything doesnt help your argument.
"god loves" hahaha, then why am i going to hell? what kind of love is that?! and w...t...f, my life gets shorter the more i sin? thats a new one... soooo god is a terrorist...? "worship me or BURN MUAHAHAHA
*screaming from pain in hell*
God: oh yea and one more thing.... i love you"
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xR34P3Rx: "they took it from the truth and mixed in their own beliefs on what really happen"
ok if thats what you really think... then explain which god is real? is it the judeo god you worship? is it allah? who is it? those are major religions! and the gods are a bit different. creating gods is just a cop out for covering up what you dont know. do you believe in zeus???
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Person: god doesn't want you to worship him by force, you have to understand that he is trying to help you uncover the truth. im sorry if you are not convinced by what i have offered you, but if you want plain old evidence, here it is. YOU KNOW WHATS GOOD OR BAD, AND YOU KNOW THE INTENTIONS YOUR HEART HAS WITH THEM!!! god forbid humanity from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God is a loving king, and he rules his kingdom with an iron fist, yes, but he only wants what is best for his children. so just admit you are wrong and receive the glory that god has to offer you.like the book of john chapter three verse sixteen through eighteen says "for god loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish,but have eternal life. for god did not send his son to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.whomever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of god's one and only son." foremost, about the coexistence, scientists found evidence of humans walking with dinosaurs in glen rose, Texas. where you can see it in a museum right in the town.
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xR34P3Rx: if he wants me to believe in him, why cant he just show himself..??? you know most animals have better vision than humans right? did your god care more about them? and no one knows what is good or bad, its all opinion. Muslims think its good to behead people that de-convert from that religion, did you know that? and you say we know whats good... you think what Muslims do is good? no? what does that tell you? ITS OPINION.
"just admit you are wrong". if you cant even prove god exists, then theres no reason for me to "admit" anything. you havent been able to prove his existence at all.
ok, and the jesus thing... that was not a sacrifice... when you kill a cow, does it come back to life? no! so it is properly sacrificed. jesus in the other hand, revived, so its like the sacrifice got reversed. and there is no historical record of that anywhere but in religion, wouldnt that be something major historians would record? but its not. and yea, god came as himself, sacrificed himself TO himself to act as a loophole to cover up for what he did wrong, what is clearly his fault.
as for the dinosaur thing, this is a quote from an article - "humans did not appear on earth until approximately 60 million years after dinosaurs became extinct
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d25_1273340971..."
LiveLeak.com - Creationist Lies : The Human / Dinosaur Footprints
http://www.liveleak.com
According to the standard geologic timetable, humans did not appear on earth unt...See More
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Person: it wasnt god's fault. like i said god forbid humanity to eat from the fruit and they DIDN'T listen. its humanity's fault that we are caught in this mess in the first place. God's intentions were perfect and there is no doubt that there was greatness coming out of it, but because of humanity's disobedience we are condemned, just like a child is punished from disobeying their parents. and he is trying to make you believe in him. that is why he brought you to me. Opinion on whatever it is that you want, but the wrath will come and its on you to be prepared. And one more thing, if you dont gain anything from being an atheist, what does it have to offer you? its just cover from the absolute truth. Muslims, Atheists, Catholics, whatever it is that you believe in. its just cover up. Christianity is just a name they gave us to categorize us as a "religion" but its not, its the truth and nothing but the truth.........God loves you, he is trying to make you understand that he can help you. even when you can't see him. like an orphan, he can't see his father but he knows he is real because he is alive and breathing. God loves you more than anyone else, he loves everyone equally, but he cannot take you in with without you admitting that you were wrong and just surrender. if you dont want to believe me, that's fine, but remember what i told you. Ill pray for you, GOD BLESS YOU!!
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xR34P3Rx: "it wasnt god's fault" - huh... i thought he created everything, isnt he supposed to be all knowing and perfect? im not perfect, guess he isnt either. It clearly is fault - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
—Isaiah 45:7
god himself admits it!
"god forbid humanity to eat from the fruit and they DIDN'T listen"
if god is omniscient, then he already knew they were going to eat from it, therefore, its not free will its predetermination.
"that is why he brought you to me"
thats your take, but satan could have brought you to ME to know the truth
"if you dont gain anything from being an atheist, what does it have to offer you?"
sooooo, youre christian to gain something in the supposed afterlife? so the love you claim to have on others is just to get paid for afterwards? Heaven is now, enjoying life while you have it, hell is also now, the bad things that happen to you in life.
"its just cover up"
ooooooooooooooooomg, all religions say that about eachother, i bet, so once again, who is correct? it doesnt matter cuz no one can come to an agreement on that, so that argument is useless too.
"Christianity is just a name they gave us to categorize us as a "religion""
look up the definition of religion. - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=religion+definition
so by definition, you are a religion, and in some cases a cult.
"like an orphan, he can't see his father but he knows he is real because he is alive and breathing"
well the problem with that analogy is that a human knows they replicate, as for a higher power... ummmm, you have to prove it first, because that is an extraordinary claim. So it still leads to you proving his existence anyway.
"Ill pray for you, HAIL SATAN!!!"
please dont pray for me, i find it offensive for anyone to tell me that, why? because my beliefs are different.
and just to emphasize, i dont believe in satan or god, i was just using that to make a point. however you should probably look into satanism, because i guarantee you, you have the wrong idea of what it really is, and its not "evil" like church says so...
Let me google that for you
lmgtfy.com
Let Me Google That For You
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Person: dude why are you skeptical? in fact, WHY is everybody today skeptical of what is right or wrong? what makes atheist true, do you have proof that its the right way to go, or is that just your opinion. just like you said, its your ((((BELIEF))). i have no intention in upsetting you or your "belief" I never have and never will.
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Person: you might think now that i just want to turn thing around on you, but if you try to explain to me that you are right and im wrong, it doesn't matter because all that you have learned comes from the world that just wants to defy god by being skeptical and wanting proof. its just going to lead to more confusion and eventually everyone would be lost, as god portrayed to be in the end of times. dont you care about what would happen to you after you die, what is to become of you? you may think that living is just that, living, but eventually you and i will die and uncover the true meaning of this life, getting to know Jesus Christ and understanding that there is life after death.
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xR34P3Rx: why not be skeptical? if i told you your father died, would you just suck it up and accept what you are told blindly? of course not! so why should you just step down and take in the shit religions tell you without questioning it?
"what makes atheist true"
ummm, do you know what atheism is? it has no "truth", it has no gods, its just a name RELIGIOUS people put us as people who just dont believe in theistic claims.
atheism doesnt offer anything, its just a label and teaches you to question things with valid strong evidence.
and well, not to get too into semantics, but belief is accepting something as true, BUT, i my beliefs are proven to be true, therefore i believe in them. where as religion, is blind faith. belief without evidence.
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xR34P3Rx: "you might think now that i just want to turn thing around on you, but if you try to explain to me that you are right and im wrong, it doesn't matter because all that you have learned comes from the world that just wants to defy god by being skeptical and wanting proof. its just going to lead to more confusion and eventually everyone would be lost, as god portrayed to be in the end of times. dont you care about what would happen to you after you die, what is to become of you? you may think that living is just that, living, but eventually you and i will die and uncover the true meaning of this life, getting to know Jesus Christ and understanding that there is life after death.
"
once againnnnnn, prooooove that god exists. and dont go all pascals wager on me... people have been saying "its the end of times!" for over 500 years... nothing has happened, thats one major reason to believe its all BS. False hope...
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xR34P3Rx: as for the right and wrong stuff, it clearly proves MY point that good and bad is composed of ones personal opinion. for example in this scenario i came up with a while ago to explain this concept.
2 cavemen are fist fighting, some jump in, some try to stop it, and some dont give a crap and just sit and enjoy the show.
the ones who tried to stop it will be setting rules based on what THEY think is appropriate, where as the rest will have their own ideas of fights, some will think its justice, some will think its a game to watch. and tada! rules are made!
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Person: SO that's the atheist covering, to not believe in anything at all? Dude you just admitted that you deny what god has to offer you with no evidence at all. what sort of LIVING involves no worrying about anything when everything around you is falling apart? the world has been full of people saying that the world is at is end, yes. but the difference between everybody's predictions and god's promise is that there is NO prediction of when its going to come. it could be today or tomorrow, next week or even a few years to come. so go ahead and throw whatever you want at me, you might even think that im crazy, but god knows that as long as i stay faithful to him, i dont have to worry about what the world has to say about me, because its skeptical, and i may suffer and life hard in life, but at least i know that god is at my side, PERIOD.
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xR34P3Rx: theres nothing to cover, once again, its just not believeing in gods, youre taking it too far as to not believe in anything.
"Dude you just admitted that you deny what god has to offer you with no evidence at all."
i deny god CLAIMS, and the "evidence" is the lack of YOUR evidence for prof of his existence.
"what sort of LIVING involves no worrying about anything when everything around you is falling apart? "
i do worry! once again, youre putting words in my mouth as it seems like you dont know what atheism is, idk who told you that, probably this guy -> Marco Tulio Noriega
but i would say that atheists care more than religious people, not saying all, but most. are you familiar with the West Borro Baptist church? look them up and you tell me who is more accepting and caring of people.
and well, you havent proven god, once again, just keep claiming he exists... watch this and they address some of these things -
youre probably going to agree with Ken Ham anyway, but Bill Nye is a REAL scientist who knows what he is talking about.
Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
Is creation a viable model of origins in today's modern, scientific era? Leading...See More
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xR34P3Rx: i would suggest as an old friend to learn about science before just denying it because of religion says so. thats called being arrogant, be open minded and you might begin to understand my position.
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Person: im more open minded than most. i have chose this way because i believe its the truth. i am not a prophet nor a minister, so i couldn't go into much depth into this without my studying. you have your view if that's the way you want,but I'm not going to deny my faith of god over anything else no matter how people explain how the world works. Science cannot prove anything about the existence of life unless it would physically tear everything apart from every particle and atom. And no my minister didn't tell me what i am telling you, this is my own knowledge. So if anything seems unclear about what i have said throughout this conversation, i apologize. i am not denying your position either, but as arrogant as i may seem im sorry but this is the way for me go and nothing is going to change that, whether i as myself have proof or not because i am still going through the process of having eternal life. im just an ordinary person who loves god, i try everyday to deprive myself from the world around me because i am not from this world, and everything that it has to offer me is worthless....... But as a friend i will respect your view on the concept and allow you to continue as you may, but there is no way i am doubting my faith in god. sorry for repetitiveness.
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xR34P3Rx: ok well, i can tell you are at the position of christians who believe that they want to believe cuz they want to believe it. but ok
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I replaced the real names with Person and xR34P3Rx is obviously me.
Thoughts? perhaps point out something i might have missed?
xR34P3Rx
it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
![[Image: atheist_zpsbed2d91b.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1090.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi366%2Fesaciar%2Fatheist_zpsbed2d91b.png)
