RE: Religion's affect outside of religion
September 23, 2015 at 4:40 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 4:41 pm by TheRocketSurgeon.)
I wrote a long response to this, but my computer's CAD program (I was doing work in the other window, and the big calculation apparently was too much alongside Chrome) crashed my computer, so it was lost. 
Short version: You make a false assumption when you think we didn't feel all the things you feel about God, when we were Christians. I know that's what they tell you to think about us. That's what they told me to think about ex-Christians, when I was a Christian. But I felt the "presence of the Lord". I never once believed that God answers all prayers as we want Him to, and I know few Christians who think that. I even had a teeshirt that says, "God answers all prayers; sometimes the answer is no." I was moved to tears by worship and prayer, and told people all the things you're now telling us.
I later learned that my experiences were not unique to Christianity, and that religious ecstasy and "sensing a presence" is the norm, rather than the exception, among the deeply devout. I came to realize that I was feeling these feelings internally, not from an external source. Looking back, I am horrified by the cult-like teachings of my religion, which say that thinking for yourself is "pride", which tell you that you must first believe and then reject anything to the contrary, and that "man's knowledge" is to be rejected if it conflicts with doctrine.
Edited to quote you so you get a "ping" notification. Sorry I forgot to, in previous entry.
Short version: You make a false assumption when you think we didn't feel all the things you feel about God, when we were Christians. I know that's what they tell you to think about us. That's what they told me to think about ex-Christians, when I was a Christian. But I felt the "presence of the Lord". I never once believed that God answers all prayers as we want Him to, and I know few Christians who think that. I even had a teeshirt that says, "God answers all prayers; sometimes the answer is no." I was moved to tears by worship and prayer, and told people all the things you're now telling us.
I later learned that my experiences were not unique to Christianity, and that religious ecstasy and "sensing a presence" is the norm, rather than the exception, among the deeply devout. I came to realize that I was feeling these feelings internally, not from an external source. Looking back, I am horrified by the cult-like teachings of my religion, which say that thinking for yourself is "pride", which tell you that you must first believe and then reject anything to the contrary, and that "man's knowledge" is to be rejected if it conflicts with doctrine.
(September 23, 2015 at 9:44 am)Drich Wrote:
Edited to quote you so you get a "ping" notification. Sorry I forgot to, in previous entry.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
