Creation Muesum

[Huggy Bear]

No one denies that Denmark has an official state religion-- for fuck's sake, their national flag is a cross!-- or that state (Christian) religion is, historically, heavily-entrenched in European governments; what that means in modern, practical terms is exactly zilch, since the people  are overwhelmingly secular and their government is run by secular principles... kind of in contrast to this nation, where our nation is ostensibly secular but demonstrably religious in its government operations, based largely on the fact that most of our voters are religious.

We were talking specifically about the government of Denmark. As for the population, at best you could argue that they are A-religious. How can they be secular when 83% of the population are members of the church and support the church financially?

Anyway that comment wasn't aimed at you, you weren't around for this particular episode, this basically sums it up.

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Don't bother. You could explain, in parsimonious terms, things like nominal ascriptions, codified constitutions, the nature of governmental structures, de jure defacto, and so on, and stay dry all night here would still fail to get it.

Give him a plastic toy gun and this guy would still manage to shoot himself in the foot.

You're seriously delusional.
This is a clear example of the mindset of an atheist, If you won't accept that Denmark's government is in fact NOT secular which is easily provable, how are you going to even begin to discuss spiritual matters?

Your own quote (in bold for clarity)
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30615-po...#pid835049

Secularism Gurantees what ive highlighted you suggest in the above post. It gives people the ability to chose a religion (or no-religion) without the state choosing for then. It prevents a state mandated religion from either existing or enforcing it's rules and dogmas on the body politic.

Now if that's not the 'freedom to chose' I don't know what is.

so according to YOU, secularism prevents a state mandated religion.
This link is taken from your own post.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30615-po...#pid846133
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Denmark

Of all the religions in Denmark, the most prominent is Christianity in the form of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark, the state religion.

Also according to YOU secularism "gives people the ability to chose a religion (or no-religion) without the state choosing for them"
This link is also taken from your exact same post
http://atheistforums.org/thread-30615-po...#pid846133
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Denmark

Let me briefly summarize what the State-church system implies:

• According to the constitution (§ 54), the Lutheran-evangelic Church is the Danish People’s Church (“Folkekirke”), and is, as such, supported by the State, which means that the Lutheran-evangelic religion and its institutions and churches are given a favored place among religions in Danish society. All tax-paying citizens, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, thus contribute to the priests and bishops of the “Folkekirke.”

•  Practically all citizens are automatically born as members of the “Folkekirke.” Not to be so demands that the citizens take the initiative to leave the church. At present 83 percent of the Danish population belong to the “Folkekirke.”

Denmark, then, from one point of view is clearly a Christian country—as are by the same standards the other Scandinavian countries.

This amalgamates into what I for want of a better label would label a secularised Lutheranism as a dominant cosmology in Denmark. Although Denmark (and Sweden) is a country in which most of the citizens by tradition belong to the State church, Christianity as a religion does not characterize the life of any large segment of the population.

Need I go on?
Denmark clearly does not have separation between church and state, yet you fail to acknowledge your own evidence proving this fact.

You're contradicting yourself dude.

I can't wait to hear your next excuse....

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Average life expectancy in the Bronze and Iron ages was 26, though of course this average is brought down by childhood deaths, so I'll go with the figure listed for the Paleolithic era, which states "Based on the data from recent hunter-gatherer populations, it is estimated that at age 15, life expectancy was an additional 39 years (total age 54)". Since Abram and Sarai were "magic people" who got to live longer due to the blessings of God--and you're right, it doesn't say that they were made young again, only that she conceived after menopause--it's not a stretch to think that they aged more slowly than normally, even if they were well beyond what was considered "extremely old" in their own time. 

Here is Helen Mirren, who is 70 and quite, quite bangable: 

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Here is Jaclyn Smith, who is 70 and quite, quite bangable:

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Here is Olivia Newton-John, aged 67, and quite, quite bangable:

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And Jane Seymour, aged 64... seeing a pattern, yet?

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The pattern I see is plastic surgery...  

On a more serious note, none of the women are in their 90's, which was the issue.

Even if we take all the details of this story at face-value, for the purpose of discussion, all that I see in that story is a miracle of making a woman who had gone through menopause and was considered too old in general to have children (which, at that point in history, would be roughly 38-40, at most, given the healthcare standards of the time and the "uterus abuse" from complete lack of birth control, back then, when women were typically married by age 14) give birth to a child after being barren all her life. That's all most Christians teach about the story; the rest you're injecting onto the story after-the-fact, to suit your preconceptions (no pun intended). 

If you actually read the beginning story, you'll find that Abraham is described as being in shockingly good shape, for 99 years old, and Sarah equally so, for 90... when the three men (one of whom is The LORD) arrive at their tents, they run around like chickens with their heads cut off, making sure things are prepared for their divine guests. By the medical standards of the day (or today), they should have been bedridden and barely able to move around. Clearly, then, the story is describing people who aged slowly or otherwise preserved their youth well into a later span of years than would be expected. You can say that God miraculously made them younger after their encounter, even though that's not in the story, or you can realize that the story has them being both old and sprightly at the same time... which is good, since the very next thing the story has them do is travel over to Kadesh, through the Negev, and over to visit Abimelec in Gerar. At no point does the story mention their miraculous reverse-aging, which seems an odd omission since it's a story about miracles.

*emphasis mine*
Abraham was a very rich man, with a huge number of servants....


As I said before, there is a point where we will have to just agree to disagree.