(November 1, 2015 at 12:35 am)drfuzzy Wrote:(November 1, 2015 at 12:13 am)Combanitorics Wrote: In your own opinion, is what Paul wrote that substantially different than what Jesus is reported to have said?
Actually, in my humble non-theologically trained opinion - - (although, how does one study a bunch of myths about something that doesn't exist, and call it scholarship?) hell yes.
Just scan through the gospels, and focus on what Jesus said. He isn't referring to himself as a sacrifice, heck, unless you count the "my Father" quotes, he isn't referring to himself as god. He gives a lot of parables and teachings for how to treat each other, and why following the law instead of taking care of your fellow man is NOT the path to god. He talks a lot about the "Kingdom of God" but most scholars don't really agree on what that means. But it seems clear that, according to the sayings of Jesus of Nazareth, he was a Jew, who was envisioning a new type of Judaism, one that would benefit his people.
There are many miracles attributed to this teacher. Many scholars agree that in all of the "god" traditions of that time, the god or god's prophet would work miracles. Therefore, the writers of the gospels, whoever they were, 30 - 70 years after the death of Jesus, inserted miracles, including the requisite virgin birth. We will probably never know whether they actually happened, whether the followers 10 - 30 years after his death had inserted them into oral tradition, or whether the gospel writers added them.
But unless my memory fails me completely, Jesus never referred to himself as equal with god. And while he supposedly hinted that his final journey into Jerusalem would not make the disciples very happy, he did not say that he was going as a cosmic sacrifice. There is the quote about the temple "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" that is supposed to refer to his death . . . but seriously? He has to refer to a temple? He couldn't hint any better than that? No "it's time for me to prove my ministry now . . . this crucifixion will not last . . . I have a greater purpose than teaching."? No. Instead, he is reported as spending hours in the garden of olives, begging God (so he's not god?) to let him off the hook. Wasn't he supposed to be god? Didn't he know that the pain would be temporary?
The Jesus of the Jerusalem church was a great teacher, one who would breathe new life into Judaism. The Jesus of Paul's church was a re-working of the dying and rising god, who had been known in various incarnations in the Mediterranean area for centuries.
I see...that could explain a lot of the differences between various churches.
