RE: Atheist Heroes?
November 16, 2015 at 2:21 am
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2015 at 3:03 am by The Grand Nudger.)
It worked, didn't it? When you think "shock and awe" you think bombers. Our military has a history of using the media in it's middle eastern wars. It's ridiculous that you think you have a point. The first priority of any military commander is to win, to achieve the objective, the second is to preserve his forces, and then we think about the civvies and all of the rest of it. They're on our minds, because we're people...and we'll be doing the shooting, or commanding the shooters.
You think someone should have to explain that? Why should Hitchens, or anyone, have to specifically address something you feel is "always the reality"? Doesn't that sound a bit silly to you? Do you think we killed more civilians in this war, than in, say WW2? If you had to rate our performance, by reference to the fire bombing of Dresden, for example....where would you place the bombing of Bagdad? War is shitty, people die. Honestly, what is it that you want me to say, or for Hitchens to have said? What would make you feel better?
You mis-characterize a military doctrine, stopping -just- shy of calling me and everyone who participated a racist murderer...and then tell me not to argue from a personal place? Fuck you, lol. You're aiming your naivety at the wrong group of people Drake. Why didn't the Iraqis evacuate high value targets and cities more adequateley? Allow me to suggest a possibility, because the people in charge, over there, just didn't give a fuck. The more civilian casualties the better. They didn't stand a chance to win, and their only hope was that we would lose our will or the nod of the international community. Do you think we would have purposely fired on refugee convoys? Do you think that soldiers want to kill civilians? Do you really think that there's an analyst in DC somewhere running numbers ala "1 US GI=30 dead brown people"?
You've fixated on the number of civilian dead. I get that, but the number of civilian dead is not, primarily, due to shock and awe. Shock and awe...rapid dominance, not what I call it, that's actually what it's called, was our -invasion- plan. Once in, once we had control, that's not shock and awe anymore. The civilian casualties -really- mounted during occupation, not during invasion. Rapid dominance worked, they quit, and yes, civilians died, but had the only civilian deaths occurred during the rapid dominance phase, it would be seen as a remarkably decent war to be a civvie in. It's usually a hell of alot worse.
You think someone should have to explain that? Why should Hitchens, or anyone, have to specifically address something you feel is "always the reality"? Doesn't that sound a bit silly to you? Do you think we killed more civilians in this war, than in, say WW2? If you had to rate our performance, by reference to the fire bombing of Dresden, for example....where would you place the bombing of Bagdad? War is shitty, people die. Honestly, what is it that you want me to say, or for Hitchens to have said? What would make you feel better?
You mis-characterize a military doctrine, stopping -just- shy of calling me and everyone who participated a racist murderer...and then tell me not to argue from a personal place? Fuck you, lol. You're aiming your naivety at the wrong group of people Drake. Why didn't the Iraqis evacuate high value targets and cities more adequateley? Allow me to suggest a possibility, because the people in charge, over there, just didn't give a fuck. The more civilian casualties the better. They didn't stand a chance to win, and their only hope was that we would lose our will or the nod of the international community. Do you think we would have purposely fired on refugee convoys? Do you think that soldiers want to kill civilians? Do you really think that there's an analyst in DC somewhere running numbers ala "1 US GI=30 dead brown people"?
You've fixated on the number of civilian dead. I get that, but the number of civilian dead is not, primarily, due to shock and awe. Shock and awe...rapid dominance, not what I call it, that's actually what it's called, was our -invasion- plan. Once in, once we had control, that's not shock and awe anymore. The civilian casualties -really- mounted during occupation, not during invasion. Rapid dominance worked, they quit, and yes, civilians died, but had the only civilian deaths occurred during the rapid dominance phase, it would be seen as a remarkably decent war to be a civvie in. It's usually a hell of alot worse.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
