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Evidence for Christianity
#11
RE: Evidence for Christianity
The Skeptic;114290 Wrote:hello, I take it you are from the WW2 era and live in Germany?


Anyway, that's one of the problems many atheists have with the "evidence" is that it isn't conclusive. The passage in the bible about "Doubting Thomas" (John 20:24-29) describes my attitude as well as that of many other non believers; we don't want to believe we want to know. The parable of doubting Thomas serves to promote faith, but me and many others do not find the concept of religious faith motivating or valid. The arguments can be broken into a priori/ rationalist arguments that depend more on pure deduction, and then more empirical based arguments like the ones from design, etc. I actually studied several books by Christian authors before I EVER touched a book by an atheist. When I was exploring different faiths, I read many Christian books including CS Lewis's Mere Christianity, The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel, and I think I read part of The Case for Creation, also by Lee Strobel. I've read What's the Difference? by Fritz Ridenour. That was a few years ago, more recently I have studied the more sophistiated arguments from people like Søren Kierkegaard, Aquinas, etc. Even as a kid I had a skeptical side to me, and when I matured and could think for myself, and read those books I listed above, I ultimately did not find the arguments satisfying. Granted, then I didn't have the sophisticated philosophical knowledge to say why, but now that i'm older, studied philosophy heavily, and read more material from a theist perspective, as well as reading many books on atheism, I have to say I find the arguments from the non-believer's side more convincing.


And from what i've heard, while there were some very admirable priests -- catholic and protestant alike -- the Church either supported or at least didn't outright oppose Hitler. Though, considering Hitler's ally Mussolini surrounded the Vatican on all sides, can you really blame them? Even so, you'd expect more outright opposition to Hitler's vile campaign from what is supposed to be the top moral authority in the world.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Brandon "The Skeptic"

Those are all good points. It is difficult thing to know what to believe and what not to. We all believe in something, like our own existance or something. I can't blame someone for coming up on the other side of a difficult problem.

In the same way perhaps the Church could have done more, but I would certainly argue that it is not evil in relation to other institutions. It may not be so holy, under a practical definition, but that is a different thing all together.

However, I have to tell you that, from what I understand, there is really no fully conclusive evidence. Now of course taking certain assumptions based on certain axioms one can conclude that one thing is more likely than another and occasionally with certainity. However, I would say that something like evolution and other scientific theories are not based on conclusive evidence, just very strong evidence. Perhaps stronger than the evidence of "healers," or the subjective faith experiences of people. But there is certainly evidence. NT Wright has a really good book about why he believes that the resurrection is the best explanation for why Christianity took off so well, and why people were willing to undergo the worse kinds of death and torture on the belief that they had seen the living Jesus die and rise again.


Skipper Wrote:
Quote:The convictions of billions is a good deal of evidence too. Once again not conclusive, as numbers do not mean that one is right. But its evidence.

Stopped reading after that to be honest.

Ignorance breeds ignorance. Christians breed Christians. Religion breeds religion. Millions and millions of Muslims have got pretty strong convictions their religion is correct too, do you accept that as evidence Islam is correct?

Skipper my friend, there is evidence in a consensus of opinions. Why do I believe in evolution, its not because I have observed it or have scientific training to figure it out for myself, its because a vast majority of scientist believe it. Does a vast majority of scientist believing in evolution make it real? No. But it certainly makes you think twice before disagreeing with it. I am not saying evolution and religion are on equal footing in this case, I am only demonstrating that a consensus of opinion is evidence, at some point this anaolgy fails.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 14, 2011 at 2:00 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by The Skeptic - January 14, 2011 at 2:12 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 14, 2011 at 6:06 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Jaysyn - January 14, 2011 at 6:19 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Skipper - January 15, 2011 at 1:35 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by orogenicman - January 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Of_Tomato - January 14, 2011 at 2:44 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Skipper - January 14, 2011 at 2:54 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by TheDarkestOfAngels - January 14, 2011 at 3:13 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Thor - January 14, 2011 at 3:33 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by DeistPaladin - January 14, 2011 at 3:53 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - January 14, 2011 at 4:05 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Anomalocaris - January 14, 2011 at 4:06 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Welsh cake - January 14, 2011 at 6:37 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 15, 2011 at 7:56 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 16, 2011 at 1:20 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 16, 2011 at 3:03 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - January 14, 2011 at 7:27 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by downbeatplumb - January 15, 2011 at 11:10 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 15, 2011 at 10:19 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 15, 2011 at 12:58 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Strappado - January 15, 2011 at 1:19 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Ashendant - January 15, 2011 at 10:02 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 15, 2011 at 10:03 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 15, 2011 at 11:03 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Zen Badger - January 15, 2011 at 11:21 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 16, 2011 at 3:09 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 16, 2011 at 3:23 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 17, 2011 at 6:43 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 17, 2011 at 10:42 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 16, 2011 at 8:24 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 16, 2011 at 8:47 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 16, 2011 at 8:59 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 16, 2011 at 9:11 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Zen Badger - January 17, 2011 at 7:41 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - January 17, 2011 at 8:10 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 18, 2011 at 10:06 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Zen Badger - January 19, 2011 at 7:39 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Of_Tomato - January 19, 2011 at 7:49 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 19, 2011 at 1:20 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 19, 2011 at 11:21 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 19, 2011 at 11:32 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by padraic - January 20, 2011 at 2:01 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 20, 2011 at 11:30 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by downbeatplumb - January 20, 2011 at 3:12 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 20, 2011 at 3:44 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 20, 2011 at 9:50 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by downbeatplumb - January 21, 2011 at 2:08 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 20, 2011 at 10:52 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Dotard - January 20, 2011 at 11:41 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 21, 2011 at 12:26 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by theVOID - January 21, 2011 at 1:36 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 21, 2011 at 10:15 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 21, 2011 at 11:54 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Thor - January 21, 2011 at 12:11 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 21, 2011 at 12:04 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 21, 2011 at 12:31 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 21, 2011 at 1:05 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 21, 2011 at 1:46 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Thor - January 21, 2011 at 1:57 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 21, 2011 at 2:03 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - January 22, 2011 at 4:20 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Dotard - January 22, 2011 at 12:02 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - January 22, 2011 at 4:00 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Anomalocaris - January 22, 2011 at 5:33 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 23, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by DeistPaladin - January 24, 2011 at 9:30 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 24, 2011 at 2:10 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Anomalocaris - January 24, 2011 at 2:16 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by OnlyNatural - January 24, 2011 at 2:55 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - January 24, 2011 at 3:04 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 24, 2011 at 6:30 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - January 24, 2011 at 6:50 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 24, 2011 at 6:52 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by OnlyNatural - January 24, 2011 at 8:13 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Ashendant - January 24, 2011 at 7:07 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 24, 2011 at 8:56 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by OnlyNatural - January 24, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Ashendant - January 24, 2011 at 9:13 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 24, 2011 at 11:00 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by GANIMEDE - January 25, 2011 at 9:33 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 25, 2011 at 10:19 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 26, 2011 at 9:42 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by OnlyNatural - January 29, 2011 at 1:19 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by dqualk - January 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by OnlyNatural - January 30, 2011 at 1:57 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Rev. Rye - January 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - February 1, 2011 at 4:38 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by DeistPaladin - February 1, 2011 at 1:38 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by KichigaiNeko - January 31, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by KichigaiNeko - February 1, 2011 at 6:05 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - February 1, 2011 at 11:33 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Justtristo - February 8, 2011 at 6:40 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by LastPoet - February 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by bjhulk - February 7, 2011 at 8:58 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - February 7, 2011 at 10:05 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by bjhulk - February 8, 2011 at 7:55 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - February 8, 2011 at 11:47 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by bjhulk - February 8, 2011 at 12:11 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Anomalocaris - February 8, 2011 at 12:22 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by bjhulk - February 8, 2011 at 12:50 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Thor - February 8, 2011 at 1:01 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by lcd471357 - February 9, 2011 at 2:20 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by TheDarkestOfAngels - February 9, 2011 at 3:14 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Thor - February 9, 2011 at 12:10 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by thesummerqueen - February 9, 2011 at 2:59 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Zen Badger - February 10, 2011 at 8:19 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Captain Scarlet - February 11, 2011 at 12:44 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by KichigaiNeko - February 8, 2011 at 4:40 am
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Anomalocaris - February 8, 2011 at 12:52 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by bjhulk - February 8, 2011 at 1:00 pm
RE: Evidence for Christianity - by Minimalist - February 9, 2011 at 12:01 pm

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