RE: The Moral Argument for God
December 15, 2015 at 8:04 pm
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2015 at 8:12 pm by Vincent.)
(December 15, 2015 at 7:20 pm)athrock Wrote: Objective Moral Values are those that would still exist even if every single human being living on the planet were to be killed by a virus.
No. Objective morality is the idea that a certain system of ethics or set of moral judgments is not just true according to a person's subjective opinion, but factually true.
If humans went extinct, it would be a fact that humans believed that murder was wrong. But it would not be a fact that murder is factually wrong, because there is no sense of right and wrong in the universe. Universe don't care if someone kills someone else. Universe don't give a shit.
Collective agreement based on mutual emotions and personal feelings between a species =/= objective fact.
I ask you again, what makes murder wrong?
Quote:Theists would say that they CAN communicate with God directly. Further, they would say that He has initiated this contact (Judaism, Islam, etc.). Christians would say that God chose to become a man in order to communicate even more directly (though this was not the main reason).
To which I can only say this: prove it. If I claim that a unicorn manifested itself to me, and I believe so strongly that it happened, would I be right? Or would it be more reasonable to think that a psychological explanation lends greater credibility?
Quote:Above all, Christians hold that we all have an understanding of right and wrong that is hardwired into our makeup, so even people who have never heard of God still understand some truths about right and wrong.
Then why is it that people have of the past felt it moral to rape women in a village they raided, or torture their enemies, or enslave their rivals? Why is it that if you dropped a baby born today into those times, it would grow up to act in the same manner? Is it because their wiring was fucked up or is it more probable that morals are just relative and change with time?
Quote:God is good by definition... God must be Good and cannot be bad.
Why? How do you know? Is it not you and other humans describing him as good? That perception of good and bad makes it subjective by definition.
Quote:Does science make determinations about "good" and "evil", between "right" and "wrong"?
Science doesn't say anything about right and wrong. That is not the purpose or duty of science. It aims only to describe reality and the natural world as it is. It doesn't have an opinion about what is moral.
Quote:the God of theism simply IS good, and all other things are determined to be good or bad depending upon how closely they correspond to his nature.
Ok. Prove it.