Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 25, 2025, 5:21 pm
Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The Problem of Good

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
The Problem of Good
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 68128
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 161
#92
RE: The Problem of Good
January 9, 2016 at 6:09 pm (This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 6:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 9, 2016 at 5:17 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: By what mechanism is there causation?

It doesn't matter, there is no reason to speculate.  -However- such causation was arrived upon..and even if there is no such -thing- as causation... she cannot make another choice. Otherwise, you would not and could not have knowledge.

Quote:This is precisely the issue.  If foreknowledge of a choice does not determine what choice is made but is solely the knowledge of what choice will be made [as my illustration] then foreknowledge and free-will are compatible.  If you are going to claim that foreknowledge of a choice determines which choice is made (and therefore foreknowledge and free-will are incompatible), then you will need to show the mechanism by which foreknowledge is the cause of the choice not an observation of it.  
-again it does not matter...the possession of foreknowledge is the issue, not the manner in which it is arrived upon, or who has it.

Quote:Again, knowing what future events will take place does not mean a person has determined [caused] them to happen.  You've shown correlation, but not causality between foreknowledge and determinism.
-yet again..and as I already expressed in the post you've quoted............I am not claiming that, nor does such a claim bear relevance. Foreknowledge and free will are incompatible. If you want to discuss causal agents, be my guest, but don't pretend to be having that conversation with me, or that such a conversation is contained in my comments.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The Problem of Good

Messages In This Thread
The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 7, 2015 at 9:04 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by bennyboy - December 7, 2015 at 9:24 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 1:38 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Mister Agenda - December 7, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 2:09 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Whateverist - December 19, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 19, 2015 at 8:00 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lemonvariable72 - January 9, 2016 at 6:25 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Cecelia - January 17, 2016 at 9:53 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - January 17, 2016 at 10:53 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 18, 2016 at 12:20 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 12:55 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - January 18, 2016 at 2:14 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 18, 2016 at 2:47 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 10:00 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Minimalist - December 7, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 1:51 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - December 7, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 7, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 7, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 8, 2015 at 8:03 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 8, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 9, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 9, 2015 at 4:48 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 10, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 10, 2015 at 4:01 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 17, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 17, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 19, 2015 at 12:02 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 19, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 21, 2015 at 9:14 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 7, 2015 at 6:47 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 8, 2015 at 8:04 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 8, 2015 at 9:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 8, 2015 at 4:10 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 8, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 9, 2015 at 1:03 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by athrock - December 9, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 9, 2015 at 4:51 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 10, 2015 at 11:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by athrock - December 10, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by athrock - December 11, 2015 at 8:34 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 11, 2015 at 5:42 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 11, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 22, 2015 at 10:13 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 22, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 23, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 23, 2015 at 4:06 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 23, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 28, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 1, 2016 at 11:27 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 28, 2015 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 28, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 28, 2015 at 6:04 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Brian37 - December 28, 2015 at 6:01 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 28, 2015 at 6:08 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 28, 2015 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 29, 2015 at 2:54 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 30, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Brian37 - December 28, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 29, 2015 at 12:38 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Brian37 - December 29, 2015 at 8:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 29, 2015 at 12:41 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 29, 2015 at 2:42 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2015 at 6:16 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 30, 2015 at 7:28 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 1, 2016 at 12:15 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 5, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 7, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 7, 2016 at 4:51 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Pat Mustard - January 8, 2016 at 4:07 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 8, 2016 at 1:36 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Pat Mustard - January 7, 2016 at 3:54 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Esquilax - January 7, 2016 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 1, 2016 at 8:58 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - January 5, 2016 at 12:38 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2015 at 7:33 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 30, 2015 at 9:11 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 30, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2015 at 9:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 31, 2015 at 11:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Marcus Felix - January 4, 2016 at 7:44 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 5, 2016 at 8:19 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 5, 2016 at 2:11 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 5, 2016 at 8:10 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - January 5, 2016 at 2:16 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 5, 2016 at 2:24 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 5, 2016 at 9:22 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 2:26 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 7, 2016 at 5:00 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 8, 2016 at 4:13 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Judashpeters - January 8, 2016 at 2:10 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 9, 2016 at 5:17 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 12, 2016 at 9:35 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 15, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 15, 2016 at 1:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 15, 2016 at 1:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 15, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 16, 2016 at 9:34 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 16, 2016 at 10:23 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 17, 2016 at 10:58 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 19, 2016 at 9:19 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 19, 2016 at 2:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 19, 2016 at 4:43 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 19, 2016 at 11:42 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 20, 2016 at 9:57 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 20, 2016 at 3:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 21, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 20, 2016 at 2:06 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 6:09 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 12, 2016 at 11:19 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Pat Mustard - January 13, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 17, 2016 at 11:37 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 12:54 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 18, 2016 at 12:56 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 12:59 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by ApeNotKillApe - January 19, 2016 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 2:17 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by ApeNotKillApe - January 20, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 3:41 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 22, 2016 at 9:24 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 22, 2016 at 12:13 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 22, 2016 at 12:10 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 22, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 23, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 24, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 25, 2016 at 11:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 25, 2016 at 5:22 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 26, 2016 at 8:53 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 26, 2016 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 27, 2016 at 4:48 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 27, 2016 at 5:41 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 28, 2016 at 8:42 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 26, 2016 at 4:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 25, 2016 at 11:57 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 28, 2016 at 11:35 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 28, 2016 at 3:39 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Problem of Evil, Free Will, and the "Greater Good" Venom7513 38 17672 May 3, 2013 at 7:54 pm
Last Post: ThomM



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)