(January 27, 2016 at 6:55 am)robvalue Wrote: I appreciate you being a little less serious, but I still can't understand half of what you're saying.I'm not being less serious, you're the one who assumed I'm too serious in the first place, rob.
Are you telling me their translation of Surah 1 was incorrect? What should it say?
Most of the translation was correct, meaning wise, but there is -at 4:58- an extra sentence that was inserted, that the original verse doesn't contain.
The sentence is "that is a perfect book"; in Verse 2.
In Arabic, it literally yields to this : "That book; there is no doubt about it; a guidance for the cautious".
Just to preserve the linguistic integrity; if the first verse is mistranslated like this, I can't trust the rest of the translations.
You can have two translations, both for the same verse, but one draws a disgusting vibe around God, yet the other draws a lovely vibe that can make you cry.
The words must be translated literally, so the foreign reader can get the verse like Arabs do.
Ah.. I found another problem at verse 4 : it's not "observe the prayer", rather, it's "Establish", literally.
Quote:I'm not basing my opinions on their opinions, I'm basing them on what the Quran says. And unless you're saying they are misquoting it, then that's perfectly justified. The fact that I get some laughs along the way instead of being bored to tears is a bonus.
I have no idea what you're talking about with Marilyn Manson, sorry.
Who's a bully exactly? I can't follow you. Sure, they make some stereotype jokes. Big deal. They're not inciting violence, nor do they mean half of what they say. They are jokes, they are making fun of the people who do hold such stereotypes.
Don't misunderstand me rob : I have nothing to do with what you will believe. I'm not violating your right to believe what you want or forcing down an idea on you.
The bully is the guy talking in the video. Personally, I believe that a bully is a person who targets a group of people or a single individual , and causes damage to them. Some bullies use comedy to achieve their damage, others use violence, either it's psychological or physical : it hurts; in addition; The psychological pain is always there.
My point about Marylin, is taken from the song I posted in my previous post. A kid gets bullied, he goes mad, brings a gun and shoots at school, then the media throws it on Eminem or Marylin Manson, instead of the real causes. Eminem was referring to that fact.
In other words, I'm saying that such attitude can hurt others, and it can be considered as an act of bullying, and if the person under attack has no self control, disasters might happen. And when that happens, it gets blamed on Islam, while in reality : it happened because a person was feeling bullied and isolated.
Quote:Are you serious with this? Really? Please tell me this was a joke. The Quran is filthy and disgusting, but it's OK, because everything is! No. It's not OK at all. It's not OK our countries are how they are, and it's not OK that the Quran is how it is. You can't excuse a supposed benevolent being from torturing things forever by erroneous analogies with what humans do. Especially since Surah 1 makes it clear he chooses exactly who he is going to torture. Really, what is the point of this book anyway, if Allah has already decided everything that is going to happen in advance? Unless Allah is actually just a human, after all. You see your own book is horrible but you worship it anyway. And again the analogy does not work, because I don't worship governments. I don't praise them if they make horrific decisions or threaten people. And I don't have the power to make it all better, like Allah does but refuses to.
The Quran is a big book. 604 pages to be precise. To fetch a single meaning/sentence out of it, you must go through the whole book to make sure that you got the whole meaning.
For example, the "everlasting agony and torture". Later on in the Quran, there is clear evidence that it might not be eternal at all. Actually, I'm 99% close to believe that myself. It doesn't contradict itself at all, yet to see that you either need to know Arabic very well, or have a literal translation of the book, along with reading the book constantly to cover every corner.
I didn't believe in it easily.
As for the torture. My personal view towards God, is that he's not a man, woman, human, alien, or anything like we ever seen. It's just like the universe and our lives : it's there. Believing in it or not will never change a thing. The sun rises either we believe it or not, well, black holes always existed, even before the rise of modern physics. God is just like that. He's there.
The torture is a mere aftermath of not listening to this entity. Unlike anything else, this God is a creator. An origin that produces, he produces and creates and governs it all with laws, with the first and last rule sitting on this system : who follows and stays in line lives & prospers, who drifts break and shatter.
we see it in the universe. We see it on earth. We see it everywhere.
Because of the above, I learned to accept it as it is. The torture verses are just a description. I can easily say that hell might be a black hole or a large star.
We are born, just to accept things as it is.
The torture exists, because that God is just. And when people are hurt, he inflicts the pain they felt on the source that caused it to them.
Quote:See, I've only witnessed the first couple of bits in the Quran, and already the religion is falling into place for me. You even admit the book is horrific, so really, I'm not telling you anything new here. Why you want to worship a disgusting monster is what puzzles me. I know (as far as it's possible to know anything) that there is no Allah, but the fact that you think it's real, and still choose to follow it, is really bizarre to me.
The universe is too wonderful yet deadly, or so I thought. When seeing a baby deer being torn to pieces by a pack of cheetahs, how something so beautiful can be turned in moments into a bloody mess, how the sunrise seems so joyful yet in reality; it's a burning star.
This makes me believe in him.
