RE: Free Will - Yes/No?
May 8, 2016 at 12:34 pm
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2016 at 12:35 pm by Excited Penguin.)
(May 8, 2016 at 12:09 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 12:03 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: And here I thought sound is what I feel when I play music.
Lol yes, that too.
-Hammy
Lol, it was a joke.
(May 8, 2016 at 12:13 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 12:05 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Why not? I'm not being asshole, I just really don't get it. How am I not fully in control of making that decision?
For us to be fully in control would require other factors beyond our control to not control our decisions, but they do. Any reasons we give for our behavior we can then ask "but what was the reason for that?" ultimately the reasons stretch back into the past beyond our own consciousness. These "reasons" being causes, being causality... it ultimately stretches back not just past our own conscious awareness, and not just before our adulthood, and not just before our birth, but back to the very beginning of the universe or in other words back to causality and time itself within existence itself, which I believe is eternal (the concept of existence itself ever being anything other than existent by definition seems entirely incoherent to me: existence itself has always existed, but time, causality and "the universe" began).
Oh and you're not an asshole at all. You're absolutely lovely and I'm happy to try and explain my own views on the matter to you
-Hammy
Existence isn't eternal, it's only as durable as the intelligence that describes what the universe does, on its own terms.
(May 8, 2016 at 12:15 pm)pool the great Wrote: @EP and @Evie,
See, that's the beauty of my argument. It's structured to give the feel that it is right when in fact it really isn't. I could show this argument to anyone that believes in a non deterministic universe and have them believe that our universe is indeed deterministic.
When I first thought of it, I tricked myself into believing it, I honestly believed I was right but after some time I really gave it some thought and I realized I was wrong.
So my question is, have you figured out why my seemingly duh argument is wrong?
No, illuminate us, Miyagi.
(May 8, 2016 at 12:20 pm)IATIA Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 11:20 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: How does randomness exclude determinism, exactly? What does it matter that you can't predict the effect, there's still going to be an effect and you're going to be bound by it.
We cannot predict exactly which neuron and at what time a specific neuron will fire. There will, obviously, be a statistical probability that allows us to function, but at the neuron level, for a specific neuron, there will be a certain amount of indeterminate information, only probabilities.
Here is a little information on the actual workings of a neuron.
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Radiation is a perfect example. The half life of uranium is predictable, but exactly which atom will decay is unpredictable. Effectively, we can have a predictable outcome from an unpredictable source.
That's great. You didn't answer my question.
(May 8, 2016 at 12:24 pm)pool the great Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 12:13 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: For us to be fully in control would require other factors beyond our control to not control our decisions, but they do. Any reasons we give for our behavior we can then ask "but what was the reason for that?" ultimately the reasons stretch back into the past beyond our own consciousness. These "reasons" being causes, being causality... it ultimately stretches back not just past our own conscious awareness, and not just before our adulthood, and not just before our birth, but back to the very beginning of the universe or in other words back to causality and time itself within existence itself, which I believe is eternal (the concept of existence itself ever being anything other than existent by definition seems entirely incoherent to me: existence itself has always existed, but time, causality and "the universe" began).
Oh and you're not an asshole at all. You're absolutely lovely and I'm happy to try and explain my own views on the matter to you
-Hammy
You're arguing the analogical equivalent that a ball that move freely inside a fence lack freedom of movement.
It doesn't lack freedom of movement but I'd agree that it does indeed lack freedom of absolute movement.
Try to link this idea with free will.
But it does lack freedom of movement.