Free Will - Yes/No?

[Excited Penguin]

You can define it however you like, it's still not going to outlive the beings that employ it as a concept.

On the contrary, if humans and other beings in the universe capable of conceptualizing the concept of "existence" became extinct, the universe and existence would still remain. I doubt you don't believe objective reality exists outside the mind so I just think you are confused about the definition of existence.

Don't be so rough with him, he's just naive.

I'm responding to him is all, I'm not being rough. What I say isn't just for his benefit but for whoever is reading.

-Hammy

Nothing exists outside the mind, to argue otherwise is completely irrational. Existence is a mental concept. Without the mind, there are no mental concepts. Thus no existence.

I don't believe objective reality doesn't exist outside the mind, I know for a fact it doesn't.

Again, it's pretty simple, you're just over-complicating stuff.

Poc: I think we're talking at cross purposes

I'm talking about someone suggesting that a potential scientific discovery that we have "no genuine choices" should morally persuade us to change our protocol about who we put in prison; ie. we put no one in prison.

But the premise of the argument removes any meaningfulness from making a change of protocol, because such a change would be beyond our control anyway, should it happen, due to the correctness of the discovery which is hypothetically assumed. We wouldn't do it because this is an accurate and persuasive argument.

I don't know how else to explain it Like I said, it would be like saying "if we have no money, we should spend it on wine."

It's a problem with the logic, not with the science behind free will and such.

hehe!
I agree the logic is tricky, at best.

Best leave it as Losty says... even if we are all products of deterministic forces, we like to think as if we aren't, so just leave that feeling as it is.

Watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g