Ah yes, those meetings with his philosopher friend in an Italian restaurant were pretty interesting! I remember one where Lesch questioned him about the "dogma" of constant growth in economy and that anyone who knows some maths should see that this is an impossible goal. I won't argue about that.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition