Speechless

[madog]

You said as regards evolution you could show empirical evidence for the Gospels .... If you take out the claim that Jesus was the son of God the rest is just a story about a stone age preacher that did some tricks and got crucified

Are we now taking out any claims that are not directly empirical?  Are they removed from consideration all together?  I am following your lead on this, but I would caution against creating rules so strict, that little can hold up to them.I will hold you to it later. Under such conditions, I don't think that the fossil record will hold up as anything more than fancy rocks, and would be discounted as empirical evidence for evolution.

But back to the claim of the Gospel.   So.... I agree, that there is not direct empirical evidence that Jesus was the Son of God (unless you count what was heard during His baptism).  And that it is a circumstantial case, based on the empirical evidence, and His claims.  So then what we are left with, is the evidence gathered through the senses for the miracles that where done, that He was crucified, and resurrected.  You seem to keep leaving out that last part.... Why is that?

Look I made a statement "Natural selection, good or bad is based on empirical evidence" Why have you suddenly switched it to Evolution? Regardless of whether or not you believe in evolution or creationism this is an excepted fact .... this can be observed today in action.

Note: even many new earth creationists accept "natural selection" though some believe "far from being proof for evolution and against creationism, natural selection is quite a reasonable and “God-given” process whereby we observe a certain genotype (the genetic makeup of an organism or group of organisms) that has pre-existed and has gradually adapted to one particular environment."

Now you countered my statement with

"A bit of a change of topic, but ok...I'll bite.   The Gospel is based on empirical evidence as well."

The Gospel (message) was in short that God sent his only son to die for ours sins and was crucified ....

You said you had empirical evidence for the Gospel (message)? I wanted to know that empirical evidence ...

It appears you were just playing games with me