(September 18, 2016 at 12:12 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You're full of shit. Consciousness, isn't. You claim that consciousness is. That's a claim that requires more support than a stupid semantic argument or saying that it's self-evident. You've never been shy that you believe in Idealism. What is that Idealism world composed of if consciousness isn't a real thing? And here you are trying to deny the ontology your well-known Idealism requires. If consciousness isn't what it appears to be, then your "world of ideas" is an empty non-space. You're simply being dishonest in pretending agnosticism here.
Although there are no doubt a whole bunch of people who might label me as an idealist, I steer clear of the title. Idealism is a concept born as a sort of "alternative" worldview to the "given" materialist worldview. I don't experience a material world. I never saw a material world. I have never seen anyone demonstrate how any aspect of anything I experience could result from processes in a material brain. I don't know what kind of "idea" this experience (I learned to call "the material world") could be "made of." So humanity has developed with a language in which I learned, as a child, to think of myself as being a "living thing" in a "material world," and that that simple, common sense worldview became intellectualized in to what we call "materialism" - that doesn't mean that I, once I recognize it's flaws, have to define my understanding of what I am in terms (idealist) that it has coined. I don't know what I am, but I'm not an idealist.
The very phrases "Idealism world" and "world of ideas" display, to me anyway, a very deep misunderstanding by materialists of the thinking of those who don't find the material worldview believable. It's like saying idealists believe in a world, only instead of being "made of matter" it's "made of ideas." In my thinking - there is no "world" in which I exist. I don't "look around" in this experience and think of it as a "world" that I am "in" - and it's "made of" neither matter nor ideas. The very concept of a "world" is a misinterpretation of this experience. As a child, thinking in simple realist terms, I learned to believe that colors were aspects of "things in a world." Now I understand that I am the colors I experience "around me." As a child, I learned to think of myself as being "my body" and that I exist "in space." Now I understand that the only way I know of space to exist is as an aspect of my experience. It is something I am.