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Why materialists are predominantly materialists
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists
(September 18, 2016 at 12:12 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You're full of shit.  Consciousness, isn't.   You claim that consciousness is.  That's a claim that requires more support than a stupid semantic argument or saying that it's self-evident.  You've never been shy that you believe in Idealism.  What is that Idealism world composed of if consciousness isn't a real thing?  And here you are trying to deny the ontology your well-known Idealism requires.  If consciousness isn't what it appears to be, then your "world of ideas" is an empty non-space.  You're simply being dishonest in pretending agnosticism here.

Although there are no doubt a whole bunch of people who might label me as an idealist, I steer clear of the title.  Idealism is a concept born as a sort of "alternative" worldview to the "given" materialist worldview.  I don't experience a material world.  I never saw a material world.  I have never seen anyone demonstrate how any aspect of anything I experience could result from processes in a material brain.  I don't know what kind of "idea" this experience (I learned to call "the material world") could be "made of."  So humanity has developed with a language in which I learned, as a child, to think of myself as being a "living thing" in a "material world," and that that simple, common sense worldview became intellectualized in to what we call "materialism" - that doesn't mean that I, once I recognize it's flaws, have to define my understanding of what I am in terms (idealist) that it has coined.  I don't know what I am, but I'm not an idealist.

The very phrases "Idealism world" and "world of ideas" display, to me anyway, a very deep misunderstanding by materialists of the thinking of those who don't find the material worldview believable.  It's like saying idealists believe in a world, only instead of being "made of matter" it's "made of ideas."  In my thinking - there is no "world" in which I exist.  I don't "look around" in this experience and think of it as a "world" that I am "in" - and it's "made of" neither matter nor ideas.  The very concept of a "world" is a misinterpretation of this experience.  As a child, thinking in simple realist terms, I learned to believe that colors were aspects of "things in a world."  Now I understand that I am the colors I experience "around me."  As a child, I learned to think of myself as being "my body" and that I exist "in space."  Now I understand that the only way I know of space to exist is as an aspect of my experience.  It is something I am.
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Messages In This Thread
Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Bunburryist - September 15, 2016 at 11:31 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Jesster - September 15, 2016 at 11:41 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by brewer - September 16, 2016 at 7:19 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Silver - September 17, 2016 at 12:57 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Chas - September 22, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Chas - September 22, 2016 at 10:56 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Bunburryist - September 20, 2016 at 12:56 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Jesster - September 16, 2016 at 10:01 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Jesster - September 16, 2016 at 10:05 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Silver - September 17, 2016 at 12:26 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Joods - September 17, 2016 at 8:47 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Joods - September 17, 2016 at 10:44 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by emjay - September 17, 2016 at 5:40 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by emjay - September 17, 2016 at 6:51 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by emjay - September 17, 2016 at 7:24 pm
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Joods - September 18, 2016 at 12:01 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by Silver - September 24, 2016 at 12:46 am
RE: Why materialists are predominantly materialists - by comet - September 28, 2016 at 8:08 pm

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