Fundies Will Be Shitting Bricks

[orogenicman]

So you are admitting you are not neutral on the matter? Well then you should not criticize the creation guys for not being neutral on the matter either.

No, I am not neutral on the matter. Is that clear enough. I haven't criticized creationists for not being neutral on the matter. I've criticized them for their ignorance. Are we clear?

Sure he established this convention. Nobody is arguing that. What I am pointing out is that it is just that, a convention set by man. As I demonstrated even Einstein agreed with this. It is not a requirement of nature at all. I don’t understand why you guys all act like you know more about the theory than Einstein himself.

All measurements to date show that the veolocity of light in a vacuum is the same in all directions, and there have been many made by scientists all over the world. So your conclusion that it is not a requirement of nature is non-sequitur to the fact that the data that shows this feature of light can only lead to Einstein's conclusion. Now, if you want to present any peer-reviewed evidence to the contrary, be my guest.

Read exactly how these experiments are conducted and you’ll understand what I meant by that. They hardly replicate natural conditions.

It doesn't work like that. You made a claim (they hardly replicate natural conditions). It's yours to support. I'll be here when you decide to do that.

Huh? When I say “naturally”, I mean taking place in nature apart from any intelligent interference. So men helping amino acids line up in the laboratory is not proof it can happen naturally at all. Just like if I line rocks up to say “Hello” it does not prove they can do this naturally in a river bed somewhere.

Erm, Amino acids react with one another and with enzymes ad some metals whether the reaction takes place in nature or inside a petri dish. These reactions are well documented.

Even if it were true? Obviously you have not read the procedures section of Fox’s work, it is true. You can’t create life by destroying the very amino acids you need to create it. I am sorry. You can’t bake a cake with only a few of the necessary ingredients; they all need to be used.

I guess these life forms growing in this superheated environment don't actually exist, according to your rationale:



Do you know anything about biochemistry? Anything at all?

Not what I said. I said they are rare in nature (true), and the ones in Fox’s experiment led to branching that is not found in biological life (also true). I never said no trt-functional amino acids are found in life, I said the branching was not.

You said "chiral amino acids that resulted were racemized". Well, dude, these types of amino acids are found in meteorites. Not only that, nine of the nineteen l-amino acids commonly found in proteins are dextrorotatory. And so they ARE commonly found in nature.

I hope you realize you don’t need random polymers to create life, you need very specific ones.

And you haven't explained what you mean by random polymers, and how that applies to the Fox experiments. Simply saying it is so doesn't make it so.

Secondly, sure heat has been observed to exceed that in the experiments but not the very controlled application of extreme heat followed by extreme cooling.

Ever hear of water currents? Extremophiles undergo EXTREME rapid temperature changes due to changes in current flow, and manage to survive it quite well.

The conditions used in the laboratory have never been found on earth. They were very controlled and calculated; it is what we call unjustified intelligent interference.

What utter crap. If you are going to try to revise 200 years of chemistry, I think you are going to have some problems doing so. You devise a hypothesis, then you set up an experiment under controlled and calculated conditions in order to determine if your hypothesis has merit. It's what we call part of the scientific method. Is this your way of saying that because he used the scientific method, heis results are bogus? Good luck with that.

I am sure you are aware that life requires mono-chiral amino acids

What do you get when you switch a dextrorotatory amino acid to a mono-chiral amino acid?

You seriously think that deep sea vents replicate the very controlled, calculated, and timed out heating and cooling patterns used in this experiment? I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.

Many of the conditions of this experiment are found at deep sea vents, as I pointed out above.

Actually I would support him using impure amino acids because they are actually found in nature and they would not have formed peptides in the laboratory. Rather, he is using things that we don’t’ find in nature to form bonds, and then trying to say it could happen in nature. It’s silly and proves nothing.

And you would be laughed right out of the laboratory. You really don't have a clue as to how biochemistry works, do you? The amino acids that were used are found in nature. In fact, they are the most common amino acids. You complain that he used pure forms of these amino acids. But if he hadn't, he would have contaminated the experiment (in other words, he couldn't guarrantee that his data wasn't the result of the impurities) and likely gotten unexpected results, and his experiment would have failed. So your complaint is silly and proves nothing.

How is that a “pro-slavery” position?

Really? You need it explained to you?

1) Wrong, wrong, wrong. You really need to stoip trying to revise history.

2) The point of the verse was that Jesus was prescribing how to treat one's slaves. Now, if he was anti-slavery he would have told people to free their slaves. There were a lot of slaves and slave owners in those days. Where is the verse showing Jesus telling people to free their slaves?

Why do you think slavery is wrong given your atheistic worldview?

(After cleaning the spittle off my monitor) If you have to ask that question, I think you've revealed more about yourself than I care to know. And you wonder why atheists have so many issues with fundamentalists!