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A Loving God
#11
RE: A Loving God
(September 24, 2016 at 4:21 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:
(September 24, 2016 at 3:38 pm)Lek Wrote: I, like most christians and non-christians, have long had a problem to one degree or another with the seemingly wrathful God of the old testament.  I've always come to the conclusion of God being a God of justice as well as of love.  Because of the sins of mankind, our lives here on this imperfect world involve suffering.  It's a consequence that stems from our sins.  Even innocent children often suffer consequences of the sins of others because they live in the resulting world.

No loving almighty "God" would ever allow that. You just can't justify that.

I'm discussing the issue from a biblical standpoint, which we often do in this forum, and I think what I expounded on was a pretty good justification, although I really don't need to justify God's actions. Coming from a believer's standpoint it makes sense. I understand that no matter what I say, God isn't going to be what you want or accept.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 3:41 pm
RE: A Loving God - by LastPoet - September 24, 2016 at 3:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Alex K - September 24, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: A Loving God - by LostLocke - September 24, 2016 at 4:12 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Faith No More - September 24, 2016 at 4:14 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Angrboda - September 24, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 4:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Edwardo Piet - September 24, 2016 at 4:21 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 6:31 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 26, 2016 at 5:33 am
RE: A Loving God - by LastPoet - September 24, 2016 at 5:03 pm
RE: A Loving God - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 24, 2016 at 6:47 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 6:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 7:03 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 7:20 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 7:45 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 7:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 7:55 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 8:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 8:48 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 8:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 8:59 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 9:06 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 9:13 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 10:19 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 12:27 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 30, 2016 at 4:30 am
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 26, 2016 at 5:36 am
RE: A Loving God - by Faith No More - September 24, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 8:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 24, 2016 at 9:17 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 9:33 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 10:15 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 10:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 10:27 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 10:36 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 24, 2016 at 10:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by PETE_ROSE - September 24, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 24, 2016 at 11:05 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 24, 2016 at 11:19 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 5:58 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 25, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 9:20 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Homeless Nutter - September 25, 2016 at 9:37 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 25, 2016 at 9:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 9:53 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 10:19 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 25, 2016 at 10:24 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Homeless Nutter - September 25, 2016 at 10:27 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 26, 2016 at 8:01 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 26, 2016 at 12:59 pm
RE: A Loving God - by downbeatplumb - September 26, 2016 at 1:06 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cato - September 26, 2016 at 6:11 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 26, 2016 at 6:40 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 26, 2016 at 9:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by mcolafson - September 27, 2016 at 4:56 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Edwardo Piet - September 26, 2016 at 3:24 am
RE: A Loving God - by mcolafson - September 26, 2016 at 4:58 am
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 26, 2016 at 5:52 am
RE: A Loving God - by mcolafson - September 26, 2016 at 7:42 am
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 25, 2016 at 10:25 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 10:30 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Ravenshire - September 30, 2016 at 11:48 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 5:38 pm
RE: A Loving God - by PETE_ROSE - September 24, 2016 at 11:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by PETE_ROSE - September 25, 2016 at 12:06 am
RE: A Loving God - by Faith No More - September 25, 2016 at 8:10 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 25, 2016 at 12:24 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 4:13 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 25, 2016 at 12:58 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 1:00 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 25, 2016 at 1:01 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 1:01 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 25, 2016 at 1:03 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 1:08 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 25, 2016 at 1:10 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 1:18 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 25, 2016 at 1:21 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 1:27 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 25, 2016 at 1:29 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 25, 2016 at 1:40 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 25, 2016 at 1:45 am
RE: A Loving God - by Whateverist - September 25, 2016 at 1:54 am
RE: A Loving God - by Jackalope - September 25, 2016 at 6:23 pm
RE: A Loving God - by KevinM1 - September 25, 2016 at 9:37 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 25, 2016 at 10:32 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 25, 2016 at 10:35 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 25, 2016 at 11:18 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 1:15 am
RE: A Loving God - by Silver - September 26, 2016 at 1:45 am
RE: A Loving God - by dyresand - September 26, 2016 at 2:10 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 3:18 am
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 26, 2016 at 9:36 am
RE: A Loving God - by mcolafson - September 26, 2016 at 5:09 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 26, 2016 at 5:19 am
RE: A Loving God - by downbeatplumb - September 26, 2016 at 10:12 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 5:21 am
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 26, 2016 at 5:22 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 6:36 am
RE: A Loving God - by Angrboda - September 26, 2016 at 6:56 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 8:22 am
RE: A Loving God - by mcolafson - September 26, 2016 at 8:34 am
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 26, 2016 at 10:25 am
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 26, 2016 at 9:42 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 8:24 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 8:37 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 9:40 am
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 26, 2016 at 9:42 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 26, 2016 at 9:45 am
RE: A Loving God - by Drich - September 26, 2016 at 12:28 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 26, 2016 at 5:43 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 5:52 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 27, 2016 at 6:53 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 27, 2016 at 11:38 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 12:03 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 3:27 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 3:30 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 3:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 3:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 4:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by mcolafson - September 27, 2016 at 4:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 27, 2016 at 4:59 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 5:34 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 5:48 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 6:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 7:14 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 9:32 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 9:40 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 9:45 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 9:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 9:59 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 10:11 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 10:19 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 10:20 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 10:26 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 10:39 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 10:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 28, 2016 at 9:54 am
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 28, 2016 at 9:49 am
RE: A Loving God - by Homeless Nutter - September 27, 2016 at 9:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 27, 2016 at 6:20 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 6:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 27, 2016 at 7:04 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 27, 2016 at 5:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 27, 2016 at 12:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Grandizer - September 27, 2016 at 1:02 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 27, 2016 at 12:09 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Angrboda - September 27, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 11:06 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 11:11 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 11:23 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 11:39 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 11:46 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 27, 2016 at 11:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 27, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 28, 2016 at 12:01 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 28, 2016 at 5:24 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 29, 2016 at 2:08 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 29, 2016 at 7:27 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Ravenshire - September 30, 2016 at 7:32 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 8:34 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 28, 2016 at 8:14 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 28, 2016 at 8:53 am
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - September 28, 2016 at 3:46 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 29, 2016 at 2:31 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 29, 2016 at 2:16 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - October 1, 2016 at 6:26 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 2:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - October 2, 2016 at 3:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 3:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 28, 2016 at 7:13 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 28, 2016 at 3:19 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 28, 2016 at 5:58 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 28, 2016 at 12:29 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 28, 2016 at 1:04 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 28, 2016 at 3:01 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 28, 2016 at 11:17 am
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 28, 2016 at 12:35 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 28, 2016 at 12:46 pm
RE: A Loving God - by KevinM1 - September 28, 2016 at 3:12 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 28, 2016 at 12:58 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 28, 2016 at 1:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by purplepurpose - September 28, 2016 at 1:47 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 28, 2016 at 2:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by KevinM1 - September 28, 2016 at 3:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 28, 2016 at 3:29 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 29, 2016 at 3:57 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 29, 2016 at 4:35 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 29, 2016 at 4:46 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 29, 2016 at 12:46 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Pat Mustard - October 1, 2016 at 6:50 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - October 1, 2016 at 3:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by downbeatplumb - September 29, 2016 at 1:42 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 29, 2016 at 5:55 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 29, 2016 at 6:00 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 29, 2016 at 7:46 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 29, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 29, 2016 at 4:08 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 29, 2016 at 7:18 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 29, 2016 at 1:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 29, 2016 at 3:14 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Ravenshire - September 30, 2016 at 7:35 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 29, 2016 at 3:45 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 2:12 am
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: A Loving God - by ED scissor hands - September 30, 2016 at 2:17 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 8:20 am
RE: A Loving God - by ED scissor hands - September 30, 2016 at 5:03 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 1:09 pm
RE: A Loving God - by ED scissor hands - October 2, 2016 at 9:48 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 2:20 am
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 30, 2016 at 1:02 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 1:12 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 30, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 1:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 30, 2016 at 2:06 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: A Loving God - by LostLocke - September 30, 2016 at 2:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 2:41 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 30, 2016 at 2:42 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 30, 2016 at 3:41 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - September 30, 2016 at 5:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 8:30 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 2:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Ravenshire - September 30, 2016 at 7:42 pm
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 30, 2016 at 7:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 6:22 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 30, 2016 at 1:45 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 2:58 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 1:50 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 4:34 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 30, 2016 at 4:48 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 4:54 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 30, 2016 at 5:00 am
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 5:02 am
RE: A Loving God - by chimp3 - September 30, 2016 at 5:12 am
RE: A Loving God - by purplepurpose - September 30, 2016 at 11:28 am
RE: A Loving God - by ED scissor hands - September 30, 2016 at 11:33 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 3:07 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 3:29 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 30, 2016 at 3:20 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 3:29 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 30, 2016 at 3:36 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 3:40 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 30, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 3:31 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 3:50 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - September 30, 2016 at 4:08 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 8:19 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - October 1, 2016 at 12:29 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 3:34 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 3:51 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - September 30, 2016 at 3:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 4:00 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Huggy Bear - September 30, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - September 30, 2016 at 8:20 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - September 30, 2016 at 11:58 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 3:03 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - October 1, 2016 at 4:04 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - October 1, 2016 at 5:50 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 5:57 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 5:00 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 1, 2016 at 5:12 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Lek - October 1, 2016 at 5:46 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 1, 2016 at 5:55 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - October 1, 2016 at 6:01 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 6:25 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - October 1, 2016 at 6:55 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 7:06 pm
RE: A Loving God - by LadyForCamus - October 1, 2016 at 8:47 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 1, 2016 at 8:54 pm
RE: A Loving God - by robvalue - October 2, 2016 at 12:58 am
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 2:53 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2016 at 3:01 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 3:23 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2016 at 3:25 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 3:41 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - October 2, 2016 at 3:35 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 3:42 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2016 at 3:52 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 4:02 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Cyberman - October 2, 2016 at 4:07 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Primordial Bisque - October 2, 2016 at 10:15 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 10:26 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2016 at 11:14 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 11:25 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2016 at 11:31 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 2, 2016 at 11:44 pm
RE: A Loving God - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2016 at 11:49 pm
RE: A Loving God - by Arkilogue - October 3, 2016 at 12:31 am

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