A Loving God

[Lek]

Big difference between putting your trust in a doctor and putting your trust in an unevidenced being. First of all we know the doctor exists, we can check his credentials and look up databases kept by the local medical board(s) to ensure that he is keeping his training up to date and that he has no malpractice issues hanging over him. As yhwh is totally unevidenced we can do precisely no checking up on him.

Rob said he had no idea of how to have faith and I used an analogy. It is akin to taking advice from a doctor because you're convinced he knows what he's talking about. If you determine later on that he's a quack you can leave him. I know my wife exists because I experience her; likewise I know God exists because I experience him. If someday I come to the conclusion that he doesn't exist, then I'll let go.

And secondly we don't put our trust in doctors unconditionally in all areas.

You're right that the analogy wasn't a perfect one because I do put my trust fully in God, but it demonstrates the concept of having faith - you trust someone, at least in a certain area, more than you trust yourself.

But, objectively speaking, from the description in the bible you do follow an evil and unloving god. You follow a god for whom rape is ok, for whom racist slavery is ok, for whom murder is an acceptable punishment for trivial transgressions, for whom it is ok to go out and slaughter your neighbour and his family for their land and cattle (as long as they are not the same religion as you). By any measure that we can use yhwh would be evil if he were real.

Actually, I follow Christ who is, in my mind, presented as an individual with good morals. If you have any verses that you think refute this, give them to me and I'll be glad to comment. I believe in him because his Spirit lives in me and I have a genuine daily experience to verify that. Jesus accepted the God of the old testament as his Father and as God. Whether or not you believe the God of the old testament involves, to a great extent, your worldview. If you believe that this natural world is all there is, then you're very likely to look at God's actions as immoral, If, like me, you believe in an eternal God who is just and wrathful, as well as loving, then you would have a different opinion, because the effect of his actions counts for all eternity rather than just for the extent of our lives here in this world.

I'll go back to the doctor. Sometimes the doctor does things to us that would be terrible is there were no further effects from what he's doing. If a dentist just drills a hole through your gum for no reason, then he's committed a terrible wrong to the affected individual. If a parent allows their child not to suffer any uncomfortable consequences for their actions or to receive any punishment for their wrongs, then they are not showing love for their child. Like I've already stated, we all have to experience suffering due to the consequences of the screw-ups of those before us or just for being in a certain place at a certain time. It's not what we're going through at the present time, but how we get through these experiences and how they affect and form us that counts. I ask myself what kind of person is God purposefully preparing to reap the benefits of eternal life with him and this is something I consider when determining whether or not an action of God is loving, as well as being just or simply the best thing to do for the occasion.

But it does depend on you making up an imaginary being to justify to yourself and others your morality and why you do what you do. I have no need for a voice inside my head to explain to me how and why I should take an action. I own up to my faults and mistakes because it is the right thing to do.

This is really where it's all at for you. You believe God is imaginary because you have not experienced him. For me, I believe he is real because I do experience him. I could say to you "if God isn't real then why have so many people experienced him?" And you could ask me if I thought Zeus or whoever is real. I'd say at least they were smart enough to realize there is a God because they were open to what the world showed them. You don't have to go through telling me that they thought the world was flat or that the sun revolved around the earth. Atheists believed the same incorrect things at the time as well. We all learn as we go on and as we make new discoveries. We had theists and non-theists in the past who believed the world was flat and now we have theists an non-theists who believe the world is round. Maybe in the future we'll have people saying "those superstitious idiots believed that humans evolved from apes." I do believe in evolution, by the way, but it could be proved wrong some day, but that won't change my experience with God.