Proverbs 16:4

[Statler Waldorf]

---

Extremely wicked sounds very much like "totally depraved". Wicked also has to do with man's morality (at least as far as I know).

---

Man’s moral ability is depraved, his moral actions are wicked. I think that’s the difference.

---

"we believe he has sheep in the catholic church as well as the protestant church" - doesn't that deny your own doctrine? I thought that in protestant religions, only those who "get saved" go to heaven (and "getting saved" has a different meaning from christian orthodoxy or catholicism). Second off, "random choice" is the same as "a will & purpose of God which is based on nothing logical and nothing concrete".

---

All of those who are chosen by God and trust in Christ are saved. Faith is a result of saving grace, so the Catholic who trusts in Christ is doing so because he was chosen by God before the foundation of the Earth. If he was not chosen by God he would be unable to exercise genuine faith. So there are Catholics who are saved as well as Protestants. I think Protestants have been given a more accurate theological understanding but that does not mean they are the only ones saved.

---

if God chose you before the foundation of the world, then you go to heaven (no matter what). else you go to hell (no matter what).

---

Yes, however the person who was chosen demonstrates genuine faith as a result of their being chosen. So it is not like you have two people, neither of which exercises faith but one gets to go to heaven and one does not. The one chosen wants to go because his will has been renewed, and the one not chosen does not want to serve Christ because his will is still depraved. Nobody gets worse than they deserve or anything they don’t want.

---

---

if God chose you before the foundation of the world, you will convert (because He decided so and decided when) and then God forces you to be how He wants you to be.

I am not sure “forces” is the right term, that implies it is against the person’s will. The person’s will is renewed so they want to serve Christ, so it is not really a forcing at all. When a person is brought to spiritual life they can’t help but want to worship God.

---

P.S. Statler Waldorf, I don't know the big difference between Calvinism and Reformed Christianity, so if I made a mistake or something, feel free to say it.
And, how old are you?

---

A Reformed Christian is someone who puts an emphasis on the teachings of the reformers such as Calvin and Luther. So yes, Reformed Christians are Calvinists for the most part.

---

I know you didn't make my Christian feedback list, but if you really want to talk with me about this subject, you'll have to bring arguments yourself. I'm not going to read a 50 pages text of which I won't agree with almost anything and spend a lot of time and do a lot of effort to reply to everything while you only send links (which is a great unbalance of effort and time spent, me vs. you, first of all).
So if you can write an explanation yourself (rather than giving a link or copy-pasting) and really do that, and write more than 3 lines of text in that post (i.e. I expect a much larger explanation than 3 or 4 lines), then I will discuss this topic with you.

---

Oh I apologize; I was not trying to use the link to make an argument at all. I was just providing some additional reading on the subject if anyone was interested. I think I said all I wanted to say in that paragraph; if God’s foreknowledge is perfect then nobody can thwart it. So it really is similar to Him pre-ordaining it to happen.