"the movement."

[Drich]

Then I began to think, in the history of the world, have Sub-Saharan Africans (S-SA) EVER in recorded history established a ideal empire, or a successful culturally and economically stable country? I could not come up with one example.

What were you hoping to prove if you did find an example of some "ideal" Sub-Saharan African empire?  How did this thought process relate to the discussion they were having on the radio?

The radio discussion was about the changing goals of BLM, it started out with what the movement initially was about and it commented on the changes that have been made with in the organization in such a short time.

'The Movement' was where it ultimately ended. I thought let's go one step further, if BLM wants to be a political power then what social structure, what type of culture is it modeling itself after? Obviously it takes issue with democracy (per the manifesto,) so what form of government will ultimately take shape/take hold If the "Demands of the Movement" are granted?

Then I thought if everything is black based/black, to the exclusions of all other races then what model of society are the leaders of BLM drawing from? or are they just 'winging it?' What great utopia is fueling this need for absolute political independence? Then I though have black people even looked how how they govern themselves when they have complete and total free reign to do whatever when ever?

Hence the question, can anyone name a successful 'black' civilization? Is there one currently? Is there one not dependent on a modified 'hunter/warrior' society mentality? Can we have an example of a working societal model and implement it in western culture do one degree or another and it not cause total anarchy? Can we treat our women and children as this 'great black society did' can we treat our neighbors the same? what about disputes how where they resolved? that sort of thing... Again if we are to implement this black-topia should we at least see it in action first?

all honest questions.. If we are to seriously look at the BLM manifesto and even seriously consider it, we need to ask these questions.

So I got home pulled up a map of Africa and started looking at all of the different countries where sub-saharan Africans rule or where the primary populace is S-SA. these nations are often time war torn, treat women poorly, lots of civil war and infighting (anti establishment) where the strongest war lord rules.

I maybe wrong, as i did not research every country's history, but from what I know I can not seem to remember any of these S-SA countries EVER being a model country, ever contributing to the world economy or ever being a shining example for all black people to look up to...

Okay...so what does this mean to you?  After your research, how does this relate to the radio discussion?

See the above for greater detail, but the short answer is, if black people can not construct a working society that does not implode once a single ruler dies, then again why disrupt a working model, isn't that all a bit selfish?

Even better. IF African American society in the US IS that pinnacle is the best S-SA society has to offer then why throw the baby out with the bath water?

If you do not agree with this statement allow me to rephrase it...

Can you name a S-SA society that has or ever had greater societal strength, standing and social influence than African americans have now at this time and in this country?

After a moment of thought  I started to look at the term African American, and remembered Liberia was the only REAL "AFRICAN/American" country/culture. As it was established/founded on slaves that were returned to Africa, After the civil war... That country is... a train wreck to put it nicely. Meaning if the descendants of slaves were literally given their own country with all the influence and skills learned from working in the fields, were given their own country Liberia would literally be that country. Raceism is rampant, there is a heavy handed onsided approach towards the 'native liberians' They are forced to live in certain areas, and treated as wild animals. Not to mention the ecconomic status and over all state of the nation is always in question. (civil conflict and corruption)

Meaning if the descendants. . .

No, meaning IF the slaves themselves knowing first hand how a society works, can't pull off a working model where they have far superior skills, Direct support from the US and a far greater intellect than the indigenous people, then how do their descendants who do not have the majority nor the funding plan to suplant a working government? Plan to 'take over?' Is the Charlotte riots, and burning down CVS drugs stores it? Is that the big plan?? Now say we elected clinton and it worked, then what will they supplant current society with? legislation that sounds good? that benfits them in the moment with no concern for the future? Kinda like how the Liberians did?

It sounded like you almost were making a point in this paragraph, but again it just trailed off into a list of facts with no meaning attached to them.

sorry thought you might be able to connect the dots yourself.
I always try and think the best of people. Eitherway it is no bother to explain. I just find some see it as me talking down to people when I explain things too deeply. So i leave it open for questions.

Meaning what exactly?  Where did you complete this thought?  If "random list of facts" then _______

Here even simpler:
If American slaves know what it is to be treated as second class citizens, then why when they got the opportunity to be kings/masters in their own right did they re institute the same failed B/S that cause the civil war in the US? Liberia has never outgrown it's segregational policies and as a direct result the nation itself is stunted in growth by civil war after civil war.

So again, if black people don't have a working model of a society, then why are they looking to implement the failures/segergational policies found in the histories of their collective societies in America today? (which again are outlined in the manifesto i linked in the OP)

Now that said I am assuming the leadership of BLM is not wanting to inject this kinda of chaos into wesrtern culture.. (if they did, then f-them they need to be takenout as this is little more than terrorism/again google the history of liberia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia

Probably a solid assumption to make.  Glad we came to the conclusion that investigating Liberia isn't going to help us understand what African American Culture means.

When did this happen? this 'investigation and conclusion?

Oh, you mean when you could not derive a point unless i connected all the dots and shaded everything in for you.. Well now that is done, we can re-examine Liberian example and take and apply historical president where it applies.
Well, the intellectually honest can. You it seems may have some.. 'trouble' reading things you do not like.

That said I earnestly began to search for examples of successful modern black culture... What I found were examples all tied into modern western white culture. I also began to run a mental list of some of the communities on the opposite end of the spectrum, they too were dominated by 'black culture' in America. black culture that closly paralelled that of what Liberians have done.

I am personally a huge fan of post hoc ergo propter hoc logic too.  Glad we are on the same page here.

Great! maybe you can cite some examples in detail!!

Now my question is, what exactly is BLM trying to change? What makes the leadership think it can do any better than their brothers and sisters in liberia/devastated 'black communities' In the US? Just short of conquering and taking the resources of others what will political dominance do? Again in Liberia as with all S-SA nations they have political dominance and corruption and infighting is the result of the dozen or so nations I looked at.

Oh, that's the point you are making.  Why didn't you just ask it to begin with silly.  No clue!  I could hazard a guess, but I'll refrain from doing so.

yeah I too find it better to play it safe when dealing with an unknown, lest i be shown to be the fool.

I'm confused.  How did we get to having two separate sets of laws?

The BLM manifesto.. Don't tell me you are this invested in the conversation and did not click on the link in the OP..So much for not being made the fool..

Can anyone give an example of a S-SA country that can be a shinning example. A country who's policies would gladly be adopted by the US or EU? a country known for it's tolerance, progressive thinking and economic strength? Again, Asians, Middle easterners, Whites, Native Americans, Indians all contribute in the way of strong societies who all have something to give/offer in the way of a common unity. Meaning we all befit some philosophy, some industry, some something that the rest of the world uses and benefits from in someway.

Didn't you establish above the BLM probably isn't interested in modelling an African nation?

No, I said if they were, then they needed to be taken out as terrorists.

Not that black people do not contribute anything. Not what I am saying, as a matter of fact black people in america have contributed alot in the way of art, literature, and industrial diversity. What I am asking for is if BLM matter gets their way and interjects their policies into the US culture, what are they planning to build? A S-SA nation? 

Whew!  Glad we figured that one out.  African Americans do in fact contribute to American society.

Well like anyother culture they do indeed still have their dead beats.

Which if you honestly look at Some of our inner cities (Detroit, Chicago, LA you'd be hard pressed to tell a difference) Or are they just looking to build on a black version of white America? (where the minority makes decisions for the majority)

If the latter is the case, then what is the need for political dominance? Meaning if black people in the history of the world are at their pinnical here 'under white America' why change? Why not strive to simply be apart of America? why the need to be black lead America?

Usually to have a latter, you need a former.  What was the former again?  I must have gotten lost somewhere.  It couldn't be that they want to emulate Liberia, because you already assumed above that that wasn't the case.

That's what happens when you ad a spin, you get lost in your own bs.

Now to be apart of this discussion you can't bring what you think black lives matter is to the table. We are working with what they themselves identify is what BLM is all about. I would also like to ask we get past the first 10 pages of racism dialog. if it will help let eveyone assume I have rightfully accepted the tag of 'racist.' So then can we move to the questions I asked?

I'm not really sure what you are asking.  Are you asking what BLM stands for?  I think that's what your asking.  I think that maybe if you listened to the Radio discussion that was taking place instead of daydreaming about Liberia, you might have a better understanding.

then maybe you should step aside and let the adults talk for a while. Maybe read a little more kinda get the hang of things before you try and interject your brand of jibber jabber