Christians

[Statler Waldorf]

---

I disagree my friend. Both the New and Old Testament are filled with Trinitarian language and concepts. Even the Gospel of Matthew establishes the fact that Jesus was eternal in the 28th Chapter, "20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” The Trinity is a beautiful and necessary Christian Dogma that is arrived at systematically, by looking at scripture as a whole, not just one verse, passage, or book.

According to this guy the holy trinity is never specifically mentioned and Father, Son, and Holy Spirit only appear sequentially one time. He also says the trinity idea wasn't adopted until 325 A.D. with the Nicene Creed. So my point is that if there's such a biblical basis for the trinity concept, why did it take so long to implement?

---

Well “that guy” has a doctorate in law and did his undergrad in political science, so I hardly find him to be a proper authority on biblical doctrine. That being said, the fact that the word “trinity” is never mentioned is a bit irrelevant, the words “omnipotence”, “omniscience”, and “omnipresent” are never mentioned either but they are attributes of God that can be derived from many passages of scripture. He can easily be proven wrong anyways, I found two verses really quickly that list the members of the trinity…

A. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

B. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."

Though the concept of the Trinity may have been concreted by the Nicene Creed (Creeds affirm doctrines, they do not create them) in the 4th century, it was not “invented” then. The concept is obviously believed by the disciples, Paul, and Luke long before the 4th century.

---

---

I disagree my friend. Both the New and Old Testament are filled with Trinitarian language and concepts. Even the Gospel of Matthew establishes the fact that Jesus was eternal in the 28th Chapter, "20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” The Trinity is a beautiful and necessary Christian Dogma that is arrived at systematically, by looking at scripture as a whole, not just one verse, passage, or book.

Matt 28:20? Seriously? I'd have thought you'd at least have tried his misquote of Isaiah 7:14.

Actual research of Christian history and reading the books of the NT in the order they were written shows how Christian dogma developed and changed over time. The reason for the Trinity was so they could keep the OT with it's appeal to antiquity. Otherwise, the Romans would never have accepted it. But for that need, they would have gone with Marcionite Christianity. It at least is more internally consistent.

Actually the trinity is a concept that nearly all Christian denominations are united on.
There are eye witness accounts of Jesus after His death according to the historian Luke, so to say there is zero evidence is being disingenuous. You should probably rephrase that to say, "There isn't any evidence I accept for Jesus' resurrection."

Every time I hear Christians hold up their mythology as "historical documentation" that proves their mythology to be true, I have to chuckle, thinking of that movie where some aliens see an earth TV show and think it's a historical account. Got anything outside of Christian mythology?

---

You claimed there was no evidence in Matthew or Mark supporting the Trinity, so I gave you an example and you reply by saying "seriously?" ? That's it?

Some problems I noticed in your post...

1. There is nothing even close to a consensus as to exactly what order the books of the NT were written in.
2. The teaching of Jesus' resurrection is so foreign to the Jewish concept of death that it can hardly be called an appeal to antiquity. Rather it was a radical concept.
3. Your assertions about the disciples’ motives are nothing but pure speculation.
4. Galaxy Quest references aside, there is nothing wrong with using scripture to uphold scripture. In fact, many historians agree that people witnessed Christ after his death. So you may not accept this evidence but don't claim it does not exist.

---

It's always worth a laugh, that "evidence."

Your reluctance to accept it is not funny to me.