Christmas Traditions and Biblical Contradictions with Reality

[Mystical]

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So, it's Christmas. Yay! It's always been my favorite holiday since I was little, there's just something about the beauty of a Christmas tree lit up that I adore! I love how the darkness is lit all throughout my home state of Colorado. Coloradans know how to do Christmas! So, today I started up my holiday cheer with some Trans Siberia Orchestra, Carol of the Bells! I loved that movie Home Alone, and that orchestra and that movie come hand in hand with several other Christmas time references that just make this time of year special for me.

But my mom just popped off randomly, "Can you just.. turn that off?" I asked why. She said, "You're just blowing my mind right now, it's too much."

Curious, I asked her why I was blowing her mind and she said, "Because that's a song about Christ and you're an atheist!"

I.. didn't even know what to say. After a bit, I pulled my jaw back up and said, "So what?"

We went through this whole thing of how she's been wondering what songs she could play around me and whatnot now that I'm an atheist (I was raised, a Christian from birth). I simply replied, "Whatever makes you happy".

So I turned back on the feed and kept listening to Christmas music! Annnndddd she popped off again during one of my personal favorites, "Little Drummer Boy" by saying, "You know that's about three wise men who traveled for years to find Jesus right?" And I was like, uh, why are we talking about this right now??? It's not like I haven't been told that by you since birth!

Well, anyways she kinda ruined my holiday cheer.

So I thought I'd take a look into these "three wise men". And it turns out, it doesn't say that at all? It calls whomever came, "Magi" which were well known to be astrologer/astromers (which was considered a science at the time), and rather than Kings themselves, they served Kings. The original wording in the bible states that they found Mary with the child not necessarily in a barn but rather the same word used for a house, and it may not have even been at the time of his birth! Most likely they were in the back room that families had where they kept their prized animals--which are also used as makeshift guest rooms. Apparently, Josephs family might not have been too keen on Mary's infidelity and made them sleep in the Donkey Suite. xD Oh, if you're wondering when the Magi found Jesus, according to the bible it's far later than his birth. So the birth of Jesus tale is just that.. a Tale.

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Sorry your mom pooped on Christmas for you. I'm the one that usually does that. At a glance some of the stuff you posted is accurate while other bits.. not so much. Or rather the narritive is a little near sighted. Meaning it speaks to perception of the events rather than what is recorded.

Bold by me*



You're a trip, Drich! That's why I like you.
Despite our vast differences and my inevitable playful jabs at your expense.
Like the post i made in the AF members cat thread for you!

Christians if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe your own Christian historians?

http://www.bible.ca/D-Xmas-story.htm

MYTH #5: They spent the night in a separate building like a barn where the animals were kept.

The bible only points out Jesus was born in a manger not that he spent his whole life there. Remember Joseph had to go back to his home town (Bethlehem) for a census, which could have taken days, weeks, months. To establish who he was and to be counted by a government official. Not to mention he now had a new born to support and a long road trip/on foot would be idea, so he probably settled down there for a while.

Right, who says Josephs home town was Bethlehem and that that was the specifications of the census? And about that census.. which one coinciding with the life of Herod are you referring to? 

This is kinda underscored by the fact that after Herod was told by these wise men that the king of the Jews was born and they were looking for Him. To which Herod demanded that they come back and tell him so he "could also worship Jesus." when he found out that he had been deceived by the wisemen he order the death of all males under the age of 2. As that is how long the star shown over Bethlehem, and subsequently how old Christ was. So more than likly Jesus was 2 or so when the wise men came.

Can you provide biblical references for these assertions? How did Herod know the wise men deceived him and how did they do so? You say later in your refutation that the wise men had to be told by angels where to find Jesus as they had no point of reference because they didnt have the star to guide them, and then you said wait nope they went to Bethlehem because of the prophecies per Micah. Which is it? Can you provide a historically accurate timeline of these events? or just your timeline in a formly manner?

Also... there's the matter of Herod dying. Before the birth of the proported King of Jews.

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And what star is this that you speak of? Or astrological event? You'd think that since everyone was so focused on astronomical signs signifying the significance of the births of kings, that there would be something documented by the lay people and astronomers alike? Nope. And again, what  specific sign would you be speaking of that coincides during Harod's lifetime?

MYTH #6: There were three wise men.
TRUTH: There were three gifts, gold frankincense and myrrh. There may have been 10 wise men, we don’t know, but each of them likely brought some gold frankincense and myrrh. Since these were common currency items of value, each wise man, regardless of the actual number, brought a little of all three. 

true No idea how many wise men there were.

So whose gonna break it to the Christian who incorrectly replay the Manger scene every Christmas eve en masse? I mean, it was a hard enough hit that Jesus wasn't even born near December!! Now key credible witnesses weren't even present at the birth???

MYTH #7: The star of Bethlehem shone over the manger the night Jesus was born.

Actually true. Mat 2:2 says the star was the indicator that Jesus was born. However 2:1 say the wise men did not show up till sometime after his birth.

TRUTH:
The wise men did not come to Jerusalem until after Mary had purified on day 33 after the birth of Jesus.

true.. like 2 years after.

Do you base this knowledge on anything other than the 2yr dictation by Herod quoted in the bible?
And was the star present for 2 years or not? And why would they find Jesus in Jerusalem when you say the star was above Bethlehem but go on to say it wasn't? I think we would make more headway if you proffered a timeline for me to address.

It was at that point the star began to move slowly ahead of the wise men till it hovered over the place Jesus was located.

This happened after they saw/had a meeting with herod.

This means that the star was not hovering over Jesus the night he was born.

Again 2:2 of Mat say otherwise.

The star shone over a house, not a barn or an inn. "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother" (Matthew 2:11). It is never called "the star of Bethlehem", simply, "His star".

true.

The shepherds were directed by an angel (not a star) to the manger of Jesus the night he was born.

True, they were led first by angels as they would have no clue what to look for in the way of celestial signs.

The star led the "wise men from the east", who traveled at least 700 km from the Persian or Babylonian area, to the house of Joseph and Mary. This trip would take at least 30 days after the birth of Jesus when you average 25 km per day travel time.

Or perhaps even further east. We do not know who they were specifically.

After Jesus had been circumcised on the 8th day in the temple, and Mary performed her purification on the 33rd day, Jesus may have been taken to Joseph's home in Nazareth and this is where the star led the wise men: “When they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city of Nazareth.” (Luke 2:39).

You can't just read this and ignore what the rest of mat 2 says. (about an angel telling Joseph to goto Egypt)
So somewhere between verse 38 and 39 of luke, Joseph's family flees to egypt and herod the great dies. as per Mt2

The star, therefore, might have shone over Nazareth, not Bethlehem.

Not likly as the 3 wise men came before they fled to egypt.

The flight to Egypt did not happen until after Mary's purification on the 33rd day. Only after this did the Magi arrive in Jerusalem.

true.

They were directed to Bethlehem, not by the star, but because Jewish authorities quoted Micah 5:2.

Per Mat2 The star simply indicated the birth of Christ. They went to Bethlehem because of what they knew of scripture. The met with Herod, after the meeting the star reappeared.
https//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat+2&version=ERV

However, the redirection of the Magi to an alternate return route coupled with the same hour of the night urgent departure, both lend weight to the star leading the Magi to the same house Jesus was born.

an angel told them to go a different way home again found in mt 2

MYTH #8: The wise men arrived the night Jesus was born in a manger.

Not likly. Wise men were up to 2 years late.

TRUTH: The shepherds came to the manger (Luke 2:8-10), but not the wise men came to Joseph's house. In fact, Herod orders the slaughter of the babies two years of age and younger. This means that the child would be well under two years old, in order that no error could be made in killing Jesus, but it also indicates that Jesus was older than a newborn.

Yes! Shepards were there that night and Jesus was not a new born when the wise men came.

Ssssoooo a star did or did not shine over Nazareth where the shepherds found the baby some 2yrs after his birth? did the magi follow a star or not? Without a star how would they find the child that was supposed to be born in Bethlehem (per OT prophecy) and not Nazareth?

Look up what I'm saying if you want, I don't mind a good critique!  I like to both learn and share knowledge.

Here's something interesting in the headlines.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...131518.htm

 

Ok part two with regards to biblical contradictions and camel archaeology to follow on another night! Thanks for your response Drich.