(June 19, 2011 at 11:30 pm)Ryft Wrote: Hardly. Where do you think I learned all this from? Christians scholars. (While I grant that you will find certain Christian scholars chalking up the Trinity to incomprehensible mystery, especially among the Eastern Orthodox churches who cherish mystery as sacrosanct, it does not follow that all Christian scholars do this.)
So are you going to explain the Trinity then or do you think your babbling about "one god being in three persons" is sufficient?
Quote:Only for someone who either willfully conflates "being" and "person"
Evidently, I'm in good company. Thesaurus.com makes the same mistake.
Thesaurus.com on synonyms for "person"
Dictioonary.com doesn't offer much to distinguish the terms:
Quote:World English Dictionary
being (ˈbiːɪŋ)
— n
1. the state or fact of existing; existence
2. essential nature; self: she put her whole being into the part
3. something that exists or is thought to exist, esp something that cannot be assigned to any category: a being from outer space
4. a person; human being
5. Compare becoming (in the philosophy of Aristotle) actuality
and another link to dictionary.com
Quote:person (ˈpɜːs ə n) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]
— n , pl persons
1. an individual human being
2. the body of a human being, sometimes including his or her clothing: guns hidden on his person
3. a grammatical category into which pronouns and forms of verbs are subdivided depending on whether they refer to the speaker, the person addressed, or some other individual, thing, etc
4. a human being or a corporation recognized in law as having certain rights and obligations
5. philosophy a being characterized by consciousness, rationality, and a moral sense, and traditionally thought of as consisting of both a body and a mind or soul
6. archaic a character or role; guise
At the end of the day, all your fancy words can't hide the fact that you're trying to say that one conscious being can exist as three separate conscious beings (or "persons" if you prefer). These conscious persons can be unaware of what the other person knows (like when the end of days will be) even though they're part of the same being. One of these conscious persons can be the intercessor for another conscious person ("no one comes to the father but by me") even though they're part of the same being. One of these conscious beings can submit to another even though they should have the same will as they are part of the same being ("not my will but thy will be done"). One person can feel abandoned by the other person even though they're part of the same being ("my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?").
Quote:Gratuitous invective without a shred of justification.
Oh please, Ryft. I've already exposed you as a liar in our exchange in the thread on God and Morality: Two separate issues. I even offered you the opportunity to explain yourself but you ignored the chance you were given.
Quote:It represents nothing recognizable to orthodox Christian teaching, fails to correspond with anything orthodox Christianity teaches, and is not even coherent in the first place.
I disagree with the first two and the third is part of the nature of ridicule.
Quote:As I have done throughout this thread so far.
No, you haven't.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
