(January 4, 2017 at 9:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:(January 4, 2017 at 9:23 pm)paulpablo Wrote: The first question, who's judgement defines who we are, presupposes that someone's judgement defines who we are.
Wouldn't it be wiser to first decide does someone's judgement define who we are?
When we define ourselves, it includes judgment necessarily. I am arguing by who we are, judgment necessarily exists of who we are.
If you take away judgment, all traits of praise or appreciation or merit all go away. Praise, appreciation, merit all are part of judgment.
Love also is reliant on judgment. Love is a type of judgment.
You cannot love without judgment.
You cannot appreciate a single state of a person without judgment.
Our judgment while not fully accurately is always done with belief there is a full accurate value to the state of the person whether positive or negative.
Yes you can deny yourself in the sense and say there is no judgment to who you are. But this Atheism gone mad really.
This is to the extent you are denying everything you ever knew about yourself from a child till now, just to say there is no proof of God.
To make it simpler, if there is an objective value you to who you are, there is an objective judgment that maintains that value. To deny you have objective value, is Atheism gone mad.
The judgment implies there is a "who" judges.
Yeh I think this argument has been done before.
The only judgement we know of as taking place exists from living beings on this planet. And some of these judgements might be reliable and some might not be and the only living beings who are judging what is reliable are living beings who themselves are not totally reliable.
I haven't looked into it too much but perhaps some mathaatical and scientific values could be considered objective.
So there could be some descriptions about me that are objective such as my height or weight but if you're going to go down the road of there has to be a god because who else would provide the perfect judgement and the objective values than who will? Then that argument doesn't fly.
I'm not saying objective values don't exist, I'm not an expert but perhaps in maths and science they do exist but there doesn't need to be a God for them to exist.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
