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(July 4, 2011 at 7:19 am)Skipper Wrote: I haven't been posting here for a week or two but it's good to see Rayaans blind justification and excuse making for Islam hasn't changed.
Yeah, my beliefs on Islam didn't change, but in the end, to each his own beliefs. Don't let that bother you please. Keep on posting.
(July 4, 2011 at 7:33 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Even given the term refers to "a light beating", just think how degrading and demoralising that is. The woman has to feel about a millimetre tall after getting a corrective slap from the master of the house. This isn't anything like a respectful marriage where the female is treasured and honoured.
It is certainly degrading to the woman. But that's the point. When you do something really bad, a disciplinary action is allowed for those things which are mentioned in the Quran, such as this. But you can also forgive her.
Speaking of "degrading and demoralizing," I have seen verses in the Bible as well which seem to fall under this description, which I know that your atheist freinds have heard of also, although I'm not going to make a positive claim because I am not an expert on the Bible and my interpretation of them could be wrong. That's why I used the word "seem" in the sentence. I'm not going to quote them, and that's not going to help me in my argument because then I'll be talking about a different book and not the Quran.
(July 4, 2011 at 1:51 pm)Judas BentHer Wrote:
With regard to Rayaan's observations:
Many non-Muslims are aware that the Koran states that it contains God's Divine timeless guidance. While the Koran also commands the faithful to exercise the intellect Allah bestowed upon them, so as to interpret that guidance by learning Arabic so as to best understand the guidance amid the lay community and to also interpret and understand that instruction based on a scholarly investigation.
So when violence against Muslim women, by Islamic men, is excused by anyone claiming the Koran does not permit that to occur, it's actually a banal excuse for pardoning what is, what's occurred, what's been suffered, in the name of Islam as perpetrated by one who claims to be Muslim.
If the Koran did not permit spousal abuse, or abuse of women and children at all, as some would like us to believe, then there would be no Muslim alive who would commit abuse in the name of adhering to the tenets of their faith as guided by the word of Allah. "Honor Killing" would not exist.
But it does.
It's not a matter of freedom of religion, it's a matter of freedom from a religion who's holy book can be interpreted by it's faithful to inspire war against the whole world. It's not a matter of tolerance, which is only exercised in the face of what is otherwise intolerable, when there is not one church or synagogue erected in Saudi Arabia or Mecca and the primary definition of "Tolerance" is; a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own. When Islam bears a history of Muslims who behead their wives, beat their wives, rape their wives, brutalize their children and slaughter infidels for daring to live free of feeling the need to comply to the tenets of Islam, because that freedom and exercise of liberty is simply not tolerable to those who are Muslim and claim their deviant behavior is in keeping with the will of god and the tenets of Islam.
Religious tradition is not civil. It's not civilized. It's old world backwards tradition that seeks to enslave the intellect of the faithful and coral the evolution of the secular. Every aspect of any of the three traditions of the Abrahamic faiths can be dissected so as to reveal backwards, violent intolerant philosophy. Unfortunately, Islam is the one that get's the majority of the Press coverage that broadcasts the impression Islam, of those three Abrahamic traditions as Christianity, Judaism and Islam, is the only one that has a population of faithful who are Fundamentalist traditionalists in the worst way. And be that as it may, in an unfair media scrutiny that makes it seem as if Islam holds the exclusive on such dysfunctional behaviors amid certain of it's faithful, it is what it is. And those faithful are proud to be what they be. And no manner of excusing; that's not Islam! Changes a thing about it.
In short, I'll say this for now:
People who profess the Islamic faith do commit mistakes. Many have committed atrocities, but just as your attitude towards them is not (necessarily) representative of reality, neither is their attitude (necessarily) representative of Islam.
