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Why are atheist...atheist?
#85
RE: Why are atheist...atheist?

theVOID Wrote:You can't presuppose that, all we know is that the mechanics had a chance of creating an isolated region of space-time, a universe, and that it happened. We can't say anything about whether or not the cause has a tendency towards creating these regions, for all we know the universe producing event is one of the more rare events that this entity/object/mechanics produces - That is all the more true if you are considering this cause to be related to string theory, there are over 10^500 different possible universes, in those circumstances you're about as far from a specific universe creating 'bias' as you could get.

The fact that the universe even had a chance to become this specific even in one universe demonstrates an incredibly specific bias. Why was one universe even possible to begin with? Why wasn't it the case that no universes could be formed at all; because of some mechanical bias that allows universes to be created, however, rare. Also, the fact that an event could be rare. shows mechanical bias in itself.

theVOID Wrote:You're saying it must have a bias towards this specific type of universe, or that it likely had a bias towards this universe? They're very different claims at an ontological level and both require a different response.

I answered the latter (likely bias) above, If the former is the case your claim essentially reduces to;

1. X (the universe) exists.
2. Y (unknown mechanism) caused X
3. Therefore, Y has a bias towards X.

It's a non sequitur, you haven't explained why, out of all the possible things that Y could cause, it has a bias towards X. An parallel argument would be as follows;

1. X (Bosons) exist.
2. Y (The LHC's Lead nuclei collision) caused X
3. Therefore, Y has a bias towards X.

This word substitution demonstrates your argument is invalid, bosons might be caused by the LHC's lead nuclei collisions but they are also one of the more rare results from Lead Nuclei collisions, Ferimons are a much more common result and thus if you were to say that the LHC as a cause was 'biased' towards one or the other you must conclude it is Ferimons the bias is towards.

This argument is accurate in describing what I have stated. You are appealing to particulars and admittedly so was I. However, it is not necessary for my argument to stand. For example, I'm don't have to necessarily say Y(unknown mechanisms) had more of a bias toward X(universe) than anything else it could cause, for example other universes. I only need to acknowledge that the existence of a universe itself demonstrates some kind of bias in mechanics to begin with, no matter how far back you may go, the universe formed for some reason and that reason follows some kind of rule and therefore is demonstrates a bias against, say, the opposite of that rule. It would be wrong for one to assume a bias towards bosons in your example (the particular) but not wrong for one to assume a mechanical bias which existed to allow for the formation of a boson.
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Messages In This Thread
Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 11, 2011 at 11:53 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Cinjin - July 11, 2011 at 11:58 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 12:03 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Cinjin - July 12, 2011 at 1:02 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Minimalist - July 12, 2011 at 12:05 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 12:21 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Minimalist - July 12, 2011 at 12:27 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 1:13 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 12, 2011 at 4:07 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by thebigfudge - July 12, 2011 at 4:20 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 12, 2011 at 4:29 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by thebigfudge - July 12, 2011 at 4:37 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 6:42 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Faith No More - July 12, 2011 at 8:52 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 10:43 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Faith No More - July 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 12, 2011 at 3:53 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Faith No More - July 12, 2011 at 1:29 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 1:53 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Kayenneh - July 12, 2011 at 4:24 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Kayenneh - July 12, 2011 at 4:36 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by padraic - July 12, 2011 at 6:38 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Autechre - July 12, 2011 at 9:34 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 11:45 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 9:44 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 12, 2011 at 3:53 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 4:05 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by leo-rcc - July 12, 2011 at 11:58 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 12:26 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 12:42 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 12, 2011 at 1:02 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Sciwoman - July 12, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 2:32 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Kayenneh - July 12, 2011 at 2:00 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 12, 2011 at 2:11 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 3:12 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 4:10 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 13, 2011 at 11:46 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by ipnaf - July 12, 2011 at 2:46 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 12, 2011 at 2:55 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 2:59 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 3:22 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Violet - July 12, 2011 at 3:30 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 3:37 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Violet - July 12, 2011 at 4:30 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 3:32 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Violet - July 12, 2011 at 4:06 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Rayaan - July 12, 2011 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 12, 2011 at 3:38 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 4:03 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by 5thHorseman - July 12, 2011 at 4:06 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by 5thHorseman - July 12, 2011 at 4:09 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by 5thHorseman - July 12, 2011 at 4:12 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 4:13 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 4:54 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 12, 2011 at 4:22 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Kayenneh - July 12, 2011 at 4:42 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Violet - July 12, 2011 at 5:16 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by bozo - July 12, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by bozo - July 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by padraic - July 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by SleepingDemon - July 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2011 at 8:55 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 13, 2011 at 7:49 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by theVOID - July 13, 2011 at 8:46 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 13, 2011 at 3:00 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by theVOID - July 13, 2011 at 11:10 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by downbeatplumb - July 13, 2011 at 12:09 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by SleepingDemon - July 12, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 12, 2011 at 11:48 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by 5thHorseman - July 13, 2011 at 12:58 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by MilesTailsPrower - July 13, 2011 at 4:53 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2011 at 8:22 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 13, 2011 at 12:41 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 13, 2011 at 2:25 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by thebigfudge - July 13, 2011 at 3:58 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 13, 2011 at 6:41 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by DaveD - July 13, 2011 at 7:04 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 13, 2011 at 8:03 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Anomalocaris - July 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by DaveD - July 13, 2011 at 8:28 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 13, 2011 at 9:14 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Justtristo - July 13, 2011 at 8:39 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 14, 2011 at 7:28 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Anomalocaris - July 14, 2011 at 10:30 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 14, 2011 at 3:38 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Justtristo - July 14, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Anomalocaris - July 14, 2011 at 6:47 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Jaysyn - July 14, 2011 at 12:10 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2011 at 11:57 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by theVOID - July 14, 2011 at 1:26 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 14, 2011 at 6:37 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 14, 2011 at 8:45 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 14, 2011 at 2:40 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by DaveD - July 14, 2011 at 6:55 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 14, 2011 at 7:04 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 14, 2011 at 7:20 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 14, 2011 at 9:47 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 14, 2011 at 10:13 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Ace Otana - July 14, 2011 at 10:18 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Doubting Thomas - July 14, 2011 at 1:05 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 14, 2011 at 2:45 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 14, 2011 at 6:34 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by theVOID - July 14, 2011 at 9:03 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by fr0d0 - July 15, 2011 at 5:09 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 15, 2011 at 10:11 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by reverendjeremiah - July 14, 2011 at 6:42 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 15, 2011 at 8:05 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Faith No More - July 15, 2011 at 8:20 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 15, 2011 at 9:35 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 15, 2011 at 10:41 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 15, 2011 at 12:02 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by downbeatplumb - July 15, 2011 at 2:07 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Faith No More - July 15, 2011 at 2:47 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Napoléon - July 15, 2011 at 9:41 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Minimalist - July 14, 2011 at 6:58 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by padraic - July 14, 2011 at 7:34 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2011 at 10:07 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2011 at 8:11 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by thebigfudge - July 15, 2011 at 8:33 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2011 at 10:36 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by thebigfudge - July 15, 2011 at 10:53 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by krazedkat - July 19, 2011 at 3:10 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Alastor - July 19, 2011 at 5:58 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by TheAtheistTroll - August 7, 2011 at 6:23 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by weakagnostic - July 22, 2011 at 9:59 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - July 22, 2011 at 10:24 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - July 22, 2011 at 10:36 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Frosty - August 6, 2011 at 9:23 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2011 at 10:31 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by FalseHope - August 6, 2011 at 10:54 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by zip_ster - August 16, 2011 at 6:08 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Cinjin - August 16, 2011 at 7:09 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by popeyespappy - August 16, 2011 at 10:20 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Epimethean - August 16, 2011 at 10:06 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by padraic - August 17, 2011 at 2:53 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Faith No More - August 17, 2011 at 2:54 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Justtristo - August 17, 2011 at 7:18 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2011 at 9:15 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Godnose - August 17, 2011 at 9:53 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Captain Scarlet - August 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by RachelSkates - August 19, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by padraic - August 19, 2011 at 9:23 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Captain Scarlet - August 20, 2011 at 1:32 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2011 at 9:26 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by padraic - August 20, 2011 at 8:18 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by The Grand Nudger - August 20, 2011 at 8:32 pm
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by twocompulsive - August 21, 2011 at 7:11 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by Godnose - August 21, 2011 at 8:52 am
RE: Why are atheist...atheist? - by downbeatplumb - August 21, 2011 at 1:47 pm

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