(April 11, 2017 at 9:38 am)Harry Nevis Wrote:(April 8, 2017 at 12:59 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I think it is interesting that you mention ad hominem's here. My comment was based on observation, and I gave one reason (although I'm open to others) for why we see this incoherence. This post however seems to be mostly about discrediting and poisoning the well; about the person. I would also say that this is an apt example of an often occurring response when the deficiencies of a modernist philosophy are brought up in these conversations. That is to attack the person and redirect attention.
Now to the second part. I think this is fitting, what often follows is an example of the classic foundationalism that was brought up. That an extreme and untenable position is taken, in order to keep even the consideration of the conclusion from being made. I think that you will find yourself quite impoverished intellectually, if we followed it consistently. Which is why this philosophy has fallen out of popularity for most thinkers.
This is mostly out of context to the OP, but I wanted to clarify my intentions with some comments. I'm not meaning to disparage others, but hope to shine a light on what is bad thinking. I don't really keep track of; nor hold this against people. But perhaps bringing it up will help you to see when it is occurring. And I have often found, that extreme examples of bad thinking help me to notice the more subtle versions within my own thinking. I may also find it more often than I realized that it was occurring. It's not against the man, but against the idea and method. I'm not assuming anyone motivation, and holding it against them and their arguments. It's a tentative conclusion based on what is seen.
And, after all of your babble, there is STILL no evidence for your god.
(April 10, 2017 at 8:24 am)SteveII Wrote: Well, except for the evidence we do have (which I will repeat as often as you make your silly, juvenile claim): The churches spread throughout the empire within 15 years of Jesus' death, the the 27 different authenticated writings discussing Jesus and his teachings, and ancillary works and references throughout the first century.
You may not like the evidence, but there is large amounts of evidence that points to the fact that Jesus not only walked the earth, but people genuinely believed he was the Son of God that came to make possible a relationship with God.
That points to no "fact" except that there were a lot of people willing to believe something. And there is no "large amount of evidence" that Jesus was real. Nothing outside the bible.
(April 10, 2017 at 11:01 am)SteveII Wrote: The problem is with defining words.
Evidence refers to pieces of information or facts that help us establish the truth of something. Proof is a conclusion about the truth of something after analyzing the evidence. Evidence is suggestive of a conclusion. Proof is concrete and conclusive.
The churches spread throughout the empire within 15 years of Jesus' death, the the 27 different authenticated writings discussing Jesus and his teachings, and ancillary works and references throughout the first century is certainly evidence that Jesus did what the people claim he did and said the things they claim he said.
Proof can have different thresholds. Anywhere from more likely than not (preponderance of the evidence), to beyond a reasonable doubt, to absolute. These are all arrived at by considering evidence. So, to say that my list is not evidence is simply wrong. What you mean is that in your opinion, it is not proof. That's fine--that is the threshold you chose.
Again, it's only evidence that people BELIEVED that someone named Jesus did these things.
Authenticated writings?! What a joke.
No shit. No full names, no physical addresses of the writers, nadda, just a bunch of first names. I love how they think the writers are "authenticated".
i can prove Stephen King is a real writer, but no, cars don't haunt people and your pet won't become a zombie.
We can prove someone wrote the Koran too, so what. We can prove someone wrote the Baghavad Gitas and Vedas too.
It still amounts to if you really want to believe in sky wizards you will.
