Believe:

[Pippy]

Hey all,

If I may quickly respond to G-Mark.

I do not understand. What is your god?
I understand why I am doing this.
Do you know me?

I did not mention my god. See when leo asked me the same question in my first thread in introductions. I am happy you understand why you are doing this. No, I don't think I know you. Do I?

Then on to Kyu. Good morning. May I ask what your name means, it is very long and full of u's. My online pseudonym is based on a little dog we named after Pippen Took.

there is no law, no rule of debate that says I have to think like you...and to take the tack you are taking is little but a dismissive attempt at character assassination.

I am not at all asking you to think like me. That would be very foolish. I am asking you not to read what I write and instantly try to disagree. It is hard to ask someone who does not know me to offer any respect, because you have no reason too. If you knew me in my daily life, you would likely be surprised. I think I am much more thorough in my thinking and intelligent that you are giving me credit. Then I would ask you to respect my wild ideas, because you know my simple ideas are usually apt. But we don't have that luxury. Nothing I do, let me please assure you, is a dismissive attempt at 'character assassination'. I don't have any superiority complex, I have no conceivable reason to try to 'assassinate' your 'character'. I am trying to tell you I am not dishonest and petty, but if you want to think I am, I cannot stop you.

and exactly how do you justify that one particular scripture holds more worth than another?

Well, how do you decide what poetry or mythology holds more worth? Try reading them, compare the Talmud with the gnostic Gospel of Truth. One instructs some very bad and unhealthy things. The other has some great, albeit spoken in code, advice about healthy states-of-mind. I judge the works as I judge any other books. With my head.

so stop messing about and just accept that it matters as much to you as it does to me that people agree and disagree with what you say

Please allow me to make this point as clearly as possible. It does not matter as much to me as it does to you that people agree or disagree with me. I am not 'messing about', I have too little time to spend my life speaking falsehoods. If you disagree, or think that I am delusional, that is fine. But I am not lying to you. It took years of practice, but I learned to be very good at controlling how other people make me feel. If I needed validation, I would have given up long ago, because for most of my beliefs, I have never been validated. Some art, some music, some books, but few people have said the things I think.

You're wrong. I care what people think about my views (even you).

Oh, please don't! I get the impression that you have decided you aren't very fond of me at all. So then what value to you is my opinion. In fact, if you think I am such an idiot, for me to disagree with you is validation that you are not like this idiot. I wish I could care what people thought, but it is dangerous and useless to me. If I didn't get the impression I am on the planet of the stupids, may be.

No, Dawkins, IS NOT an asshole just because you say so, he is ex-Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science and, quite frankly, people don't get given positions such as that when they are "assholes" ... the fact is that you equate "asshole" to someone you don't like or who attitude you don't like and that makes YOU the asshole.

I didn't at all equate an asshole to someone I didn't like. I (decide I) don't like Dawkins, because (I think) he is an asshole, not the other way around. I gave him a fair shake, but his stance left me deeply offended and unimpressed. I made it clear before why I think he is an asshole.

Then tell me.

Sigh. I see little point, but OK. Very briefly. Don't lie, Don't steal, don't manipulate for benefit, don't take more than you need, don't hurt others... Kind of like Right Thought, Right Action. I made up these rules myself, based on my moral strengths and weaknesses. No one told me them, although I do credit god in a way. (In the sense that god is everything, even me) I try my best to follow my rules. I am not entirely sure why, but it feels VERY important and comes from my 'gut'. I would wish that more people make themselves rules (not my rules), and got away form the mindset that 'it ain't wrong unless I get caught and punished'.

I'm not good at math either but that doesn't mean I reject it like you do science because you (apparently) aren't good at it

I never said I rejected science. This is what I mean when I say it appears you are not listening. I think I clearly said that science and the scientific method led me to my beliefs. You may have assumed I was lying, because it makes so little sense to you. I only think science (the scientific method) can be used incorrectly, and make incorrect results. Learning about things, out of curiosity and want to understand is very commendable. Learning about things for the need to try to control is dangerous and weak. I think am quite 'good at' science I guess. Doesn't really matter though.

Music is human interpretation of sounds that are part of this apparently naturally "evolved" universe. Math is a human method of managing abstract numbers and their relationships or (more precisely I assume) is the science or a group of related sciences that deals with the logic of quantity, shape and arrangement (Wordnet).

Yes, I understand. I mean that both Math and Music are things that would exist outside of human cognition. We don't invent a musical scale, like we invent a water filter. We only name it, but it's reality is obviously outside of us. Math is harder, but the same. It is abstract, but fundamental. Unless you read a lot of Hawkins, we can try to assume that mathematical truths are the same the whole universe over. They may not be, but what a mind-bender that is. When I learn something, I try to relate it to music. That way I know I am attempting to relate to as fundamental a truth as I (personally) can.

There was no "before" the big bang, time is a property of space and space was created when this universe formed.

I don't know if you are in a position to tell me what happened at the supposed beginning of the universe. All we have in that realm (much like the argument about god) is theory. Unless, I may be mistaken, and you might have been there to see it.

You've be wrong to cal me American.

I assume form your slang and that blog link that you are in the UK. I would have called you American in the same sense I called you a 2-year-old. I know you are not 2. It is allegory.

You DO care otherwise you wouldn't be here.

I have other motivators. I see this is very difficult for you to understand/believe. I don't really care if you continue thinking I care (hehe), but I dislike being misunderstood. Please understand that that is much different from caring what people think, I just hate being misrepresented, because it is likely a failure to communicate effectively on my part. I can try to explain it a thousand different ways, and I can understand your scepticism. I think I would be sceptical of me in your shoes. If I cared, why would I come to an Atheist board to discuss Theism? Unless I am a sadist of some sort.

Thank you again for your time. I see why you call yourself the angry atheist, you have a lot of passion. I commend that. I am still not interested in arguing or fighting. Just respectful debating. May be we just have to 'smell each others butts' and then we can move on to better topics. I look forward to your reply, and now I am going downtown to see if I can find a Mandolin. It seems the perfect transition from guitar to violin. Take care.

"There's more than one answer to these questions, pointing me in a crooked line",
-Pip