(April 13, 2017 at 12:47 pm)SteveII Wrote:(April 13, 2017 at 10:17 am)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: Yes, sir. I've noticed that you have stated this twice now in your replies to me. To humanity's collective knowledge, these things just don't happen. The aim of my questions was to try and understand that if people were more knowledgeable back during the time of Christ (before centuries of these reinforced beliefs were passed on and conditioned into practitioners of this faith), then would they have been more inclined to point out [1]. For the people who actually claimed to have seen these events, what were the conditions surrounding their experiences: were they under a lot of stress; were they fatigued, especially from great amounts of ritualistic worship? Did the instances in [1] actually occur in reality and beyond any one person's perceptions, or did the people who claimed to have experienced them honestly think and believe that these events happened? {A}
Now, the majority of people who have bought into the Christian faith have not personally witnessed these events, so how do they justify the events in [1]. Are beliefs that are obtained via the accounts and experiences of others actually stronger, more persuasive, and harder to modify than those obtained via direct experience and observation? {B}
Also, if I've understood correctly, I've noticed that you take a rational approach toward establishing the existence of a god. However, I have not seen how one would rationally establish that this god is the Christian god. How does one rationally make this conclusion? Can this be done via logic and reason alone, or is faith also necessary to reach this conclusion? Can faith alone be used to reach this conclusion and is that actually a more sensible approach (both in establishing the existence of a deity and linking it to a particular deity)? {C}
Thanks for you time and attention, SteveII.
{A} I believe the events in the Gospel happened pretty much as described. I have never heard a coherent theory that would explain the widespread belief that we have evidence for following the death and resurrection of Jesus.
{B} If I believe in God, why isn't the NT compelling? It makes sense, it answers many questions, it provides details on living a fulfilling life, and provides a way to have a relationship with God. Also do not underestimate the role of personal experience (changed lives, attitudes, etc.) of the person and of other Christians that adds to the evidence.
{C} What is the difference between all the other religions and Christianity? The NT. I think it delivers the most complete systematic theology of any religion by far.
"I think" doesn't count. Others also "think" their club is the right club.
"Personal experience" also doesn't count. Other people with other clubs also like to point out their "experiences".
There is no such thing as Buddhist or Hindu "reincarnation", their societies also like to claim holy writings, "miracles" too. If you commit the death story in real life on a real person as the bible would have you believe, THEY DIE AND STAY DEAD.
Ascension myths rising into heaven also exist in prior polytheism. No not the same details, but the same rise to heaven. Horus was the savior deity the son of Isis and Osiris. He rose into heaven to sit at the right hand of Osiris under the head God Ra in judgment of the dead.
Even the idea of humans having wings is older than Christianity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus
The Jesus thorn crown is actually a stolen idea from the ancient Egyptians where the sun would be behind the head of the esteemed or revered deity. In later Christian artwork the prior Egyptian "sun disk" is also behind the images of Mary and Jesus.
The idea of girls being bartered between families was WORLDWIDE even in polytheism, and back then they were bartered between families and expected to not be "spoiled" or already used. Purity motifs also existed in polytheism. Even the first Buddha earliest mythology has him avoiding the vagina of his queen Mother Maya.
Your religion is borrowed from Jews, and surrounding north African and European MOTIFS of prior polytheism. Even the first Hebrews got their head god character name from the prior Canaanite polytheism.
Religion never pops out of nothing. Upstarts simply take ideas and motifs from what they see prior and surrounding, change the names and details.
The much older Dionysus was also thought of as the cycle of life in the grapevine as to which wine symbolized the "living god" in which its "dismemberment" was the "sacrament". Funny how a much older society associated wine with blood sacrifice. Like "The body and blood of Christ."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysian_Mysteries