(April 25, 2017 at 9:35 am)SteveII Wrote:(April 25, 2017 at 12:20 am)Grandizer Wrote: How many different ways should I make it clear that I am asking you to demonstrate that it is actually impossible that all human beings would choose good all the time? I don't care for mere expressions of incredulity about the possibility, I want you to demonstrate that it is impossible. If you can't do that, then it's a legit objection that you have not been able to rule out.
To put this in a Biblical way: If Adam and Eve had never eaten from the forbidden tree, would their descendants have inevitably disobeyed God by eating from the tree?
To be free to do good means to be free to do good all the time.
Steve, if it is at all possible, then this does undercut the argument that God could not have created a better would.
Then that makes you a compatibilist, essentially a determinist. You don't adhere to libertarian free will. But then, how is this a useful type of free will to argue for in the context of this discussion? At the end of the day, compatibilism/determinism implies that you couldn't have been some other way and that therefore every choice you make was predetermined (even if you made the choice in accordance with your preferences, personal experience, understanding of life, etc.). And if everything you do (including your intentions) are predetermined, then why is God punishing anyone for failures that they couldn't have avoided doing? He could've simply created all human beings to be predetermined to not fail and thereby avoid punishment and other repercussions ...
1/2. And how many times do I have to say that it is an atheist argument and all I have to do is undercut the premise that it is actually possible (versus broadly logically possible) that God could create a world were everyone would always choose good. I have undercut with it does not seem possible that such a world could exist. This is an intuitive and reasonable conclusion after observing human history. You do not have a defeater for that objection and that is just one reason the PoE argument fails and no one outside of atheist forums think it is a successful logical argument.
3. No, I believe in dualism. The immaterial mind causes material things to happen. No determinism there. No determinism, no compatiblism.
The "immaterial mind causes material things to happen".
Oh bullshit, when I was a kid there was a time when movies like the Exorcist or Poltergeist would have scared me, and I would have believed humans could move things without touching them, or spirits could move things without touching them.
ALL UTTER NONSENSE.
If a material object moves it is because physical actions took place. Even at the neurological level. My typing this response to your nonsense, is because YOU typed it which is a physical action.
Your crappy ideas are a result of others either writing stuff or saying stuff that you used your senses to observe which created new neurological pathways in your brain, and in return, you turn around and try to use PHYSICAL actions to sell your claims. No magic involved.
There is no "immaterial mind". You are your brain in motion. No fuel, no motion, no structure, your brain dies.
What you call mind, is bullshit. It is like saying it is possible for speed to happen without a car with fuel.
"Mind" is merely the word we describe for the motion of the brain, which is a lifetime of senses physically taking in what the brain interprets.
"The car is going 55mph" is not a material thing, but a description of the motion of a physical thing.
