The need to believe?

[The Grand Nudger]

Most everyone here knows my ''story,'' but the nutshell version is that I grew up in a Christian home, and thought I believed most of what I was taught. As an adult, I've questioned like anyone does, but about five years ago, I came to the conclusion that Christianity was built on man made lies, and that the Bible really is a book designed by men to control other men. Religion is a powerful tool to control others. Then, my grandmother died a little over two years ago, and when she became ill, I was an atheist at that time, and it was then that I started to feel emotionally lost as an non-believer. Logically, atheism was still ''it'' for me, but emotionally, dealing with the loss of my grandmother was just hard. Despite having quite a few atheist friends, I couldn't find any solace in regards to processing my grandmother's death. So, I started looking into other beliefs system like Buddhism and even Islam. Without going into a lot of details, I have always felt this need to believe. Like if I don't believe, something bad will happen. Thanks to my indoctrinated childhood, I've always felt like something outside of myself should solve my problems, or come to my rescue. I'm not ''good enough'' on my own. In organized religion, the teachings revolve around how you're simply not good enough to do anything on your own, and you need this Great Comforter to help you. And when you believe it, it IS comforting. But, why do I need this belief? Logically, there is no proof that a deity exists, but why must I tell myself that one does? I felt almost two years ago, like I had an actual spiritual experience, and now I wonder...was I creating that experience because I've missed the emotional comfort that faith brought to me? And looking back, there likely was a logical explanation for what happened ut I applied a supernatural answer to it.

Probably giving the bible somewhat of a short shrift on this...as yes, it's been used by people to control others, but it;s purpose (top me, at least) seems to have been a commentary on the human condition.  Stories that make little sense or, taken literally, are nothing more than paltry miracles burst with allegory and metaphor.  Grief is a recurring theme, for example, and here you are, full of grief eh?  Bad things will happen whether you believe or not..this isn;t so much a logical conclusion as it is a statement of fact that we're all very aware of.  Logically, speaking..speaking of logic..there's no need that any part of your experience or internal process -be- logical.  Human experiences, particularly emotional experiences..are very often not logical but no less compelling or meaningful for being so.  Do you still feel as though you aren't good enough to do anything on your own?  I ask because I wonder whether or not this sticks...and I do think that a person can read the same texts and come out with an entirely different appraisal of themselves. Similarly, I don't know that you -need- belief, so much as you want belief..particularly in that you've tied it to loss and comfort.  We all want comfort in loss, even if we may not need it.  What, if you don't mind..was your spiritual experience?  Like before, there needn't be a logical explanation...I'm just curious about spiritual experiences that people have.  

My mind and heart never really ''agreed'' when it came to my atheist position five years ago, and when I come to this site, or hang out with my friends who are atheists, there is comfort in logic. Simple logic. But, we're not only logical people, the sum total of our lives isn't built around our intellects. We have emotions, and while they shouldn't govern us, they are important. So, where I'm at right now is that I want to believe that God exists. Or a god. I'm not following any religion, don't go to church, etc. Yet, I feel a pull towards spirituality. I've been reading about ''spiritual atheism'' and wonder if it is an actual thing. Can an atheist, also be spiritual? Can someone logically come to a conclusion that a god doesn't exist, yet wishes to believe that one does? Have any of you felt this way, do you ever wish you believed, or have had a desire to believe, yet logically, you know that the concept is absurd? Is there no meaningful way to reconcile the two?

I feel you here, my mind and heart find themselves at odds constantly.  I usually follow the latter...though it never leads to god belief..or revolves around god belief, in my case.  I know..for example, that  I should ring my cats neck in his sleep..he's sick and old and in pain......but I can't bring myself to do it.  I put pain killers in his wetfood (the kittens are forced to subsist on dry gruel) that I get from a bovine vet buddy.  Shhhh, don't tell anybody I'm a big softy about Grey Cat.  I even named one of the kittens Grey Cat...so that when he dies, I still have Grey Cat.  Unfortunately people aren't so interchangeable.  My father died a few years ago, I got the call..I was calm as a hindu cow...but as soon as I hung up I wailed like a common heeb and threw my head into the pillow.  I kept thinking (and saying, more sobbing) "I had questions".  My wife was there.  It lasted for maybe an hour, then I put it away and got to the business of putting his body away. I guess this all happened right before I joined the boards...part of me joining was just reaching out and talking to people.  I'm intensely private with my emotions pretty much everywhere but here.  You guys might know more about me than the wifey does.  That's hardly a logical response to grief or marriage...but I don't refer to logic in my day to day life.  I rarely find the need.  You'll never catch me naming a fallacy in conversation with a drinking buddy.  
In any case, spiritual atheism most certainly does exist..particularly in that "spirits" aren't gods...so there's no real disconnect there.  Additionally...it;s entirely likely that a person like myself..who doesn't believe in spirits -or- gods..has an emotional analog for everything you attach to either of those two concepts.  Personally, and I've shared this with one other person on the boards thusfar...coming up like I came up with all these wonderful stories about different gods from different times and places and cultures..yeah./..sure, some of them I think would be a hoot.  There's an amount of disappointment to find that the magic spell doesn't work - for me most of that is years in the past, I guess.  A jackal headed psychopomp that presides over the weighing of a soul against Ma'at..the feather of truth....it would be interesting if nothing else.  If Hecate appeared at the circle...if Diana worked her magic into a love spell.  If Quetzacoatl was really knocked from the sky by a jaguar.  If Marduk and Tiamat engaged in an epic battle and in so doing created the cosmos.  If Loki was truly chained for the murder of Baldur as part of a drunken prank, with the venom of a serpent dripping in his eyes until the world ends and Fenrir is loosed.  The world would be a very interesting place.  I guess it;s a love hate thng for me..because, as stories, part of me would enjoy it very much if they were true....but then there's the bad shit that makes me happy they aren't.  Worse, there's the actions of believers regardless that make me lose the kind of faith I do have, not in gods..and not without evidence or illogically...in my fellow man.  That's my religion..if I had a religion.  That's the god I would wish to be true.  The god of unity, of all of us, all together or not at all.  The chain that cannot be broken and the wave that cannot be resisted, the inexorable force of human joy and happiness that everything falls before and under.  Terrible at times..downright murderous, but even in our inequity noble...beautiful.  Human.  

One of my friends recently said to me (he is an atheist, always has been) that he thinks it's interesting that I feel that everyone is on a ''faith journey,'' for he has never felt that way. He said that there is no journey of faith for him, he accepts his lack of belief, and doesn't try to ''fix it.'' He said that he thinks I'm trying to ''fix'' something inside of me, as if there is something wrong with not believing in a god. And that struck me so hard, he is right, I guess. When I was an atheist, intellectually and logically, I felt fine. I had no issues with my concluding that a god likely doesn't exist, but emotionally, I've always felt empty not believing. Just being honest. Because I was taught to put God in the everyday, human void that we all probably experience from time to time. ''God of the gaps,'' plugging God into the painful gaps of my life. So, that's where I'm at right now, and wonder if I'm alone in these thoughts. 

Thanks for listening, and if you have any thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them.

Well, maybe you are trying to fix something inside of you.  I could tell you that whatever that is a god won't fix it, a god has never fixed it.  Christ never "fixed" a sinner..for example...they're still sinners.  However, my telling you that won't matter much if you feel..even on the off chance, that it -might- work, eh?   Personally, I'm full to bursting with every emotion just walking through a grocery store and people watching.  There's no need, or room, for make believe gods...there's probably no room for real gods, if they existed.  They would be background noise to me, like a car starting in the distance or all the stars in the sky.  They would be the backdrop of human drama....not the focal point.  I fill my "human void" with human relationships.  I fill it with things that would help people..or myself.  God not being one of those things..having never been one of those things.  Not for me, and in truth, imo, not for anyone. Ultimately, that last bit stands even if there are gods.

(which there aren't, so suck it up )