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An argument against Adam and Eve
#81
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve
(August 2, 2011 at 12:39 am)Rhythm Wrote: Hmn lets see, a "serpent" that can move around without crawling on it's belly (it hasn't yet been cursed by god)...Now what do we call walking/flying "serpents", oh, that's right, dragons.

Nahash (Hebrew) [from nahash to whisper, hiss, prognosticate, practice divination] Serpent; a constellation -- the serpent or dragon in the northern quarter of the heavens (We call this Draco)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahash

I'll even suggest to you where they may have gotten such an idea in the first place (not that they need an origin for a dragon story, find me a culture without dragons):

http://www.bible-history.com/archaeology...arduk.html
perhaps even
http://www.northernway.org/hgoddess.html
(I find it very amusing to view the narrative in this light, of a Goddess cult luring away men from god, but hey, in the end I don't have a say in what this narrative actually means)

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" Rev 12:9

Even if you don't belong to a tradition that believes the serpent of Genesis is the devil he is still referred to as nahash, and dragon, in the same breath. In fact there are many different words one can find in the bible that mean serpent, dragon, monster, sea creature...and a whole host of other things, all at the same time. Nahash may actually be used as an adjective in some of these cases, and not a noun as the text seems to imply, rendering it's meaning to "hissing thing". We are again left with a walking, talking, sentient creature, that apparently has a habit of hissing (or at least whispering). Scripture does call it a serpent outright however, and in this case they clearly meant it as a noun. A walking, talking, sapient...serpent. A dragon. Just because your dragons have wings, and knights fight them out of their caves for hordes of treasure, doesn't mean everyone sees (or in this case saw) dragons in such a way. But hey, wtf do I know right buddy?

(What the hell is the deal here anyway, you can believe in everything that the text says, except when it says dragon? Is that where it becomes too fanciful for you? Well we all draw the line somewhere don't we?)

The Hebrew word used in Genesis is nachash and means, hissing sound of a serpent, it is not used in the garden story as a physical description. So to say that the serpent had legs or wings is not important, what is important is that the serpent was made to crawl on it's belly for the rest of it's days, it in no way describes where snakes come from, read the verse closely and you will see that the curse was applied to this one serpent only.
In Rev. 12:9 the word in greek for dragon is drakon which means fabulous kind of serpent which does not mean it can fly, breath fire or anything else, this has to do with the cunning and slyness of Lucifer. The stories are not to fanciful, I believe what the scriptures say when the correct definition is applied to the words and what the context of the verses is.
(August 3, 2011 at 1:41 am)Rhythm Wrote: If I recall correctly, your version of hell is interactive and partially self imposed. Leading to all manner of perverted sadist/masochist fantasies on your part. Just imagine all the writhing sinful souls.

It's totally self imposed, you make the choice not God, He gives you what you ask for. Why is it you can not see that. That is a thought not a question. As for the punishment one will torment themselves with a hatred for God that goes beyond anything you can imagine.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Messages In This Thread
An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - July 30, 2011 at 6:24 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Minimalist - July 30, 2011 at 6:45 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Ace Otana - July 30, 2011 at 6:49 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 30, 2011 at 6:52 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - July 30, 2011 at 6:59 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Violet - July 30, 2011 at 7:17 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Ace Otana - July 30, 2011 at 7:22 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 30, 2011 at 7:23 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - July 30, 2011 at 8:33 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 30, 2011 at 9:04 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - July 30, 2011 at 9:08 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 31, 2011 at 7:14 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - August 2, 2011 at 6:34 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 2, 2011 at 8:58 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - August 2, 2011 at 9:08 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 2, 2011 at 4:27 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Violet - July 30, 2011 at 9:24 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by edk - July 30, 2011 at 7:26 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 30, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by padraic - July 30, 2011 at 7:54 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Minimalist - July 30, 2011 at 7:31 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Judas BentHer - July 30, 2011 at 7:50 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 30, 2011 at 8:01 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by BloodyHeretic - July 30, 2011 at 8:27 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - July 31, 2011 at 5:09 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Faith No More - July 31, 2011 at 10:02 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by edk - July 31, 2011 at 6:48 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Kayenneh - July 31, 2011 at 7:43 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 31, 2011 at 9:19 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Ace Otana - July 31, 2011 at 10:03 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 31, 2011 at 11:23 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Ace Otana - July 31, 2011 at 2:40 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 1, 2011 at 8:46 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Cinjin - August 1, 2011 at 5:14 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by orogenicman - July 31, 2011 at 11:30 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Judas BentHer - July 31, 2011 at 11:43 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - July 31, 2011 at 12:21 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Skeptic - July 31, 2011 at 12:57 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by orogenicman - August 1, 2011 at 3:43 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2011 at 3:32 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2011 at 4:06 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by DeistPaladin - August 1, 2011 at 11:41 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Judas BentHer - July 31, 2011 at 2:11 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Judas BentHer - July 31, 2011 at 2:58 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Minimalist - July 31, 2011 at 3:12 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Cinjin - August 1, 2011 at 4:54 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 1, 2011 at 7:00 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - August 2, 2011 at 7:42 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2011 at 6:47 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Kayenneh - August 1, 2011 at 7:06 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2011 at 11:02 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Minimalist - August 1, 2011 at 5:47 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 1, 2011 at 11:36 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Faith No More - August 2, 2011 at 12:02 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Cinjin - August 2, 2011 at 1:15 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 3, 2011 at 1:36 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Cinjin - August 3, 2011 at 2:00 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 3, 2011 at 3:16 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Anymouse - August 13, 2011 at 6:40 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - August 3, 2011 at 2:27 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2011 at 12:39 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 3, 2011 at 2:58 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Cinjin - August 3, 2011 at 3:22 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 3, 2011 at 4:03 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Cinjin - August 3, 2011 at 11:58 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Faith No More - August 3, 2011 at 5:23 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 3, 2011 at 4:53 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Faith No More - August 3, 2011 at 11:35 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 4, 2011 at 4:00 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - August 4, 2011 at 4:12 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 5, 2011 at 1:13 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Captain Scarlet - August 13, 2011 at 2:28 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Faith No More - August 4, 2011 at 4:40 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Anymouse - August 2, 2011 at 6:57 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2011 at 11:24 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 2, 2011 at 6:22 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 2, 2011 at 6:54 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 3, 2011 at 3:08 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Violet - August 3, 2011 at 2:43 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 3, 2011 at 6:09 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2011 at 3:55 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2011 at 1:51 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2011 at 4:31 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Godschild - August 5, 2011 at 1:35 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Faith No More - August 5, 2011 at 1:39 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by orogenicman - August 13, 2011 at 4:49 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Emanuel - August 13, 2011 at 5:24 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by orogenicman - August 13, 2011 at 5:46 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Tiberius - August 13, 2011 at 6:21 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by The Grand Nudger - August 13, 2011 at 7:36 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Killman - August 14, 2011 at 3:20 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by padraic - August 15, 2011 at 2:15 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by Anymouse - August 15, 2011 at 5:40 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by DeistPaladin - August 15, 2011 at 9:01 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by fr0d0 - August 15, 2011 at 3:02 pm
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by KichigaiNeko - August 15, 2011 at 6:09 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by The Grand Nudger - August 15, 2011 at 9:14 am
RE: An argument against Adam and Eve - by KichigaiNeko - August 15, 2011 at 9:16 am

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