(October 13, 2017 at 4:41 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote:(October 13, 2017 at 3:40 am)Godscreated Wrote: God does sentence the unbelieving to hell, they choose not to believe. Given that they reject God means they have chosen hell. I'm not sure how you could believe that a person isn't responsible for their actions and then reap the consequences. God says He desires no one to perish, this would eliminate your idea that God makes them chose hell.
Well... The God-character can say a lot of things, but...
God isn't some character in a novel, He is real and He can only tell what is true.
Mr. Obvious Wrote:Do you believe God is all-knowing and all-powerfull and created the universe/world we live in? If you don't , than this argument of mine can be discarded. But if you do, than everything we do and choose and everything being the way it is, is because he pre-chose what we would do and believe and choose.
God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, the last meaning God has saw what each of us choose to do with our lives, none of the three or a combination of them means He controls our eternal destination. If you believe what you posted above then you need to bring some proof of preordination, the Bible speaks of choice.
Mr. Obvious Wrote:=> Me not believing in God would be what God created me to do.
How so, where's your proof God planned His creation to be one way only, the scriptures do not say that. Why would God who loves all mankind create some to go to hell, you make no sense whatsoever.
Mr. Obvious Wrote:If God has an infinite ways of creating the world (all-powerful) and knows how every one of these he chooses to create would turn out (all-knowing) then by picking the one he creates actively predetermines my own choices. He could have created a universe in which everyone would come to believe in him. He then, hypothetically, chose not to do that but to create a universe in which you do believe in him and I don't. Likewise, your belief in him would be predetermined, even though you perhaps see it as your own choice. If there is an all-powerfull, all-knowing entity that sets up the system to it's own desires, it can hardly complain the components don't act in the way it wanted them to.
This is a tired old argument that holds no water because it is completely flawed. God created the human race with choice, He wants us to come to Him in love. God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent and being all these things and determining the total outcome of mankind then why would He even bother, it cost Him his Son through the suffering of all sin, God wouldn't have done this when all He had to do is destroy His creation. you make no sense in your argument and it has no bases at all.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
