RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:22 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 5:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 16, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Ignorant Wrote: 1) Things are the way they are because god commands/creates that they be so. Yes. How is that mutually exclusive from the idea that things have their own inherent goodness?If there's an inherent goodness to something than this must be, by definition, apart from god. Something that's good in it;s own right is not good because of anything to do with a god. Not by being created by a god, and not because of some whispy telos. You'd have to side with the first horn.
Quote:2) I don't follow. What about human nature leads you to believe that rape and/or genocide leads to people becoming the best sort of humans?It doesn't matter whether or not I think so. If rape or genocide were included in gods aim or purpose, and goodness was determined by this, then they would be good. This is what leads some to state that such a morality is arbitrary, however, a person who sides with the second horn responds to this by invoking telos. The morality isn't arbitrary, it's definitely been determined by something - the purpose or objective decided by a god. I think this might be why you're confusing the telos response as a third option to the dilemma, because it's commonly used to respond to criticisms of arbitrarity arising from acceptance of the second horn.
Quote:3) What, exactly, makes that apparent?Magic book...but frankly, it doesn't matter. Siding with the second fundamentally affirms this regardless of whether or not ones pet deity has some objective or purpose that we might describe as evil. It's just a lucky coincidence that it doesn't, if and when it doesn't.
Quote:4) But we aren't going by that. I have stated repeatedly that human nature/being-human is what determines/communicates what is morally good. I am no divine command theorist.I can repeat the dilemma for human nature without a reference to god.
Do human beings love the good because it is good, or
Is it good because it is loved by human beings?
-Being a divine command or human command moral theorist is functionally equivalent to the dilemma.
Quote:5) I'm not so sure it is obvious. They are, at best, confusing on these subjects and, at worst, contradictory. It is hardly obvious what they were trying to communicate.I take the authors for their word. It's not my problem that they can't all agree, nor does their disagreement with each other cloud what they were individually conveying.
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