RE: Excuse your God
October 23, 2017 at 9:18 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2017 at 9:24 pm by Simon Moon.)
(October 23, 2017 at 8:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:(October 23, 2017 at 7:43 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: What is the process I should use in order to 'know' that your god exists?Because the knowledge is constantly being attacked inwardly and outwardly, so despite having that knowledge which you do and will never prove you don't, to me or to yourself, it takes power from love of God to testify to him and do away with the shadows.
If I 'know' that god exists, why do I need faith? I don't use faith for any of my other beliefs. I rely on evidence and valid/sound logic for those. That is the only way I can claim to know things, to be convinced they are true by the availability of evidence and logic to support them.
If by 'attacking the knowledge' you mean to hold up god claims to critical thinking, skepticism, and valid/sound logic, then yes, guilty as charged.
I don't have the knowledge you claim I have. You are calling me a liar. You are also claiming to know what is in my mind better than I do. Do you have some kind of special power?
I don't have to prove that I don't have this knowledge you claim I have. You are the one making the claim I have it, it is up to you to support your claim.
Quote:And who more capable of causing us to reflect properly so we know him than God himself.
Yes, I agree. I will be convinced that a god exists as soon as he communicates with me, in such a way that is convincing.
Quote:Yes there is no reason to assume Quran has that reflection and not any other holy book from both being religion, but never the less, if enough people talk about the wall of China, it becomes reasonable to think it probably most likely exists.
Nope. Fail.
Just because the majority of people believe something, adds zero support that it is true. At one time, the majority of people believed the earth was flat. How did that work out for them?
If the existence of a god was as demonstrable as the Great Wall, there would not be any atheists.
Quote:The problem right now there aren't enough people showing proper reflection on Quran, so it lacks in that regard, and humans have failed it in that regard. But I am testifying to it's ability to guide you to the proper means of reflecting, curing you of the irrational doubts you are in, and giving you clarity.
I've read the Quran. It is filled with superstitious nonsense, and some not so nice ways to treat infidels, homosexuals and women.
I have zero irrational doubts. I repeat, ZERO. My doubts in the existence of gods is based purely, and 100%, on rationality, critical thinking and skepticism. In other words, the complete opposite of irrationality.
Quote:You can either take it from me or not. I am saying as well, that althought I try to present some of it's arguments, God is the best of guides and the guide he appoints are more worthy to be paid attention to.
In other words, I am telling you to stop relying on me, and begin to look for a reliable handhold and rope from God. If you search all your life for that handhold but don't find it, I am sure God will not punish you.
But apathy to God, the Beloved of all beloveds, the one who deserves the most love from us and most value and respect, requires you at least search. I believe if you search you will find.
I am not going to tell you how to reflect over God's book, we all have our own talents, and everything clicks differently given different minds. But I believe God put all cures in that and has through the family of that reminder, brought forth its cures through clear elaboration.
I am not relying on you, or any other specific Muslim. I've read the book, I've heard (and refuted) all the arguments for the existence of a god, I've read and refuted all your flawed arguments.
Here's an idea, that your god should have no problem with, if he is as powerful as you believe. Pray to him to let you know, what is the best argument and/or evidence that would convince us that he exists.
Quote:If a god exists, I want to know it.
Good, act on that desire, and see where it will lead you.
Waiting for people like me who are insane (mentally I am insane) and barely know themselves let alone where you are at and how you think, is not reliable. That is why I am saying your best bet is to find a firm handhold and rope from God, and search what truly is his guidance on earth. If none exists, if God doesn't exist, well than atleast you did your best and if he exists, he won't fault you for that. But apathy as an excuse won't be very valid given that God is defined to be the being we should least apathetic towards knowing and searching and finding.
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I don't have a particular desire to believe in the existence of a god. I am definitely not relying on you.
My main desire is to have as many true beliefs as possible, and as few false beliefs as possible. That is why I come here and talk to theists, to hear what they believe, and most importantly, why they believe it.
So, if you admit that you are insane, how do you know you can trust anything you claim about god? Shouldn't you be especially careful to verify your beliefs by using critical thinking and evidence?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.