(November 13, 2017 at 1:52 pm)shadow Wrote:(November 13, 2017 at 5:49 am)Hammy Wrote: Because there's no point in being effective or inoffensive if what you're saying is bullshit.
There's a difference between bullshit and discretion. Bullshit hijaks the principle of your message, whereas discretion is about conveying it an appropriate matter for the audience you are addressing. We 'format' our messages all the time: if a prof asks for a 1500 word essay, I'll give them that many words even if I had 3000 words to say. If I'm getting a passport photo taken, I won't smile even if I usually like to smile. If I'm trying to explain something to my 4 year old cousin, it will be in a different manner than if I'm trying to explain something to a classmate.
These are very simple examples, but the more complex a task you are trying to accomplish the more this applies. If I'm trying to get a job, I may be perfectly qualified and honest but I'm not going to say the same things in the job interview that I would chatting with a friend - that's not what the HR person wants to hear about. Similarly, if I'm trying to broach a sensitive topic like politics with someone who I disagree with, finding common ground first can open the door to further discussion. Alienating them ends the conversation. Words are powerful, and if you imagine what your words will accomplish before you use them you will create a lot more opportunities.
It's not being dishonest - it's saying the right things at the right time. I do not lie (except in mafia of course ) but I do choose my words carefully.
(November 13, 2017 at 3:18 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: I've always thought there is a purpose to the overuse of insults towards conservatives here, to make atheist forums an unfriendly place towards them as possible.
That is quite possible - I've observed that this is one of the instrumental uses of insults.
If that's the case I'm disappointed with AF, because I want to talk to conservatives if they are willing. If we're going to be anything better than an echo chamber, we have to. From my experience it is so powerful to understand the people who you disagree with - to know how they think, to understand their paradigm and see what it's missing. Especially when you are disagreeing with a very powerful force, you can't pretend that they aren't there, or you will continually lose and not know why.
And I think we're rationally right by so much as atheists that there's no reason to try to keep conservatives out. Chasing away dissenters is something you have reason to do when you're a bully trying to look tough, not when you can so easily defend your view rationally and objectively.
Good points. Some people here come off as hateful to anyone that disagrees with them. Not just hateful to the conservatives that disagree with them, but also now the progressives that politely disagree with them. Progressives are now considered pieces of shit for not falling in line, and the level of hate is getting a little sad I think. I agree with you that we should be trying to understand each other better rather than just calling each other names, because that's counterproductive. I can understand calling someone like Ted Cruz a cunt, or calling someone on the forum a cunt or retard if they come on here telling us that we're going to bow the knee and be sorry when we find out God is real, or when someone comes on here saying horrible things about gay people, or when someone comes on here and says horrible things about black people. Calling them a cunt makes sense then. I don't like the idea of calling every conservative that comes along a cunt though. The same goes for religious people. I like to be respectful to them and actually try to understand their perspective about things rather than just insulting them. If the religious person is actually trying to have a decent discussion and just put their point across, I can respect that and return the favour.
