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What is your opinion about Communism?
RE: What is your opinion about Communism?
(November 23, 2017 at 2:31 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(November 23, 2017 at 2:00 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: That's like kicking a car door in and saying it was bound to be damaged in a crash anyway.
It never had a chance to prove you wrong.

IMO it never had a chance of working in Cuba. The Leninist model specified by the OP has been the template used by all Marxist revolutions (aside from Spain) and they ALL resulted in totalitarian regimes. I consider myself a Marxist, but NOT ONE SINGLE communist regime established on planet earth is one in which I would chose to live under.

Marx wasn't just a utopian. He had great faith in mankind-- way too much faith if you ask me. The system he envisioned is one where the workers organized a system of production themselves. He did outline a "dictatorship of the proletariat" but this phase was supposed to be temporary AND it was supposed to be a government body of WORKERS not Communist Party leaders. Lenin replaced a capitalistic elite with a bureaucratic elite. It could be argued that right there he departed from Marxism.

To say communism "would have worked" in Cuba if only the US had left them alone is false. I read propaganda that says this sort of stuff all the time. Bullshit. There are problems with Marx's original theory. Leninism should be tossed out the window. The only way I see a Marxist system actually working is if it

1. Guarantees inalienable rights (free speech etc. to all citizens)-- otherwise you get dictators
2. Adopts republican democracy (with a balance of powers) instead of authoritarian bureaucracy 
3. Allows a robust capitalistic enterprise to thrive within its borders (so long as capitalism isn't the most powerful economic influence present) 
4. Ensures the complete education and provides healthcare for all citizens

To the argument that this system doesn't sound "Marxist" but more "Democratic Socialist" I beg to differ, but my reply is lengthy. Short answer is: it has a strong libertarian element which differentiates it. Also, it is based on collective need first; capitalism is there to give people what they want. You also can't pin me to any present day Marxist ideology.

Since I have kinda suggested that I find myself on the libertarian left, I want to say that anarchism, anarcho-syndicalism, anarcho-communism etc. are all pipe dreams. Even if you could get these societies to work, they would implode within hours-- they are highly unstable and have no central stabilizing force present to ensure they last.

Even my iteration of Marxism might not work today. Perhaps people aren't ready for it. But maybe they will be in, say, 500 years (hopefully sooner). All I'm saying is that, if it can be made to work, it is a better system than capitalism.

Communism was designed to be introduced in a fully  first world country, the ideal at the time he wrote it would have been Germany or England. Unfortunately its only ever been tried in agricultural and struggling nations.

Like trying to cross the sea on a small inflatable giraffe. It may take you some of the way but its not really what it was designed for.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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Messages In This Thread
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 7:13 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Sal - November 23, 2017 at 7:15 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Minimalist - November 23, 2017 at 11:35 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 12:29 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 12:32 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 12:39 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 12:40 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Aroura - November 23, 2017 at 7:26 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by ƵenKlassen - November 23, 2017 at 7:49 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by ƵenKlassen - November 23, 2017 at 8:15 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 7:57 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by KittyAnn - November 23, 2017 at 8:06 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by downbeatplumb - November 23, 2017 at 1:55 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Fake Messiah - November 23, 2017 at 2:00 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by downbeatplumb - November 23, 2017 at 2:00 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by vulcanlogician - November 23, 2017 at 2:31 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2017 at 1:06 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 24, 2017 at 1:19 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2017 at 1:22 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2017 at 1:29 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by vulcanlogician - November 24, 2017 at 4:51 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 24, 2017 at 7:03 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 23, 2017 at 8:19 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Whateverist - November 23, 2017 at 9:25 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 23, 2017 at 9:41 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 9:48 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 23, 2017 at 10:13 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 10:58 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Brian37 - November 23, 2017 at 9:53 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by vorlon13 - November 23, 2017 at 10:39 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 10:44 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Whateverist - November 23, 2017 at 10:46 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Fireball - November 23, 2017 at 10:46 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Whateverist - November 23, 2017 at 10:47 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 11:27 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 12:33 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 11:56 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 11:58 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Brian37 - November 23, 2017 at 12:03 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 12:20 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by vorlon13 - November 23, 2017 at 1:24 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 23, 2017 at 2:07 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Minimalist - November 23, 2017 at 11:59 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 12:38 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 12:45 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 12:51 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 1:04 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by pocaracas - November 23, 2017 at 1:17 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 1:36 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 1:51 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 1:54 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 12:47 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 12:51 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by pocaracas - November 23, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Minimalist - November 23, 2017 at 1:01 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by CapnAwesome - November 23, 2017 at 1:14 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 1:17 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by CapnAwesome - November 23, 2017 at 2:02 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by pocaracas - November 23, 2017 at 2:33 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 23, 2017 at 3:14 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 3:26 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 23, 2017 at 3:40 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by pocaracas - November 23, 2017 at 2:29 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Aegon - November 23, 2017 at 1:27 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 23, 2017 at 1:54 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 1:58 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 2:01 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 2:08 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 23, 2017 at 2:11 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 2:13 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Rev. Rye - November 23, 2017 at 2:54 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Valkyrie - November 23, 2017 at 2:54 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 23, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Valkyrie - November 23, 2017 at 3:04 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Astreja - November 24, 2017 at 12:05 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Whateverist - November 24, 2017 at 12:33 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Wyrd of Gawd - November 24, 2017 at 2:07 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by vorlon13 - November 24, 2017 at 5:51 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Pat Mustard - November 24, 2017 at 2:44 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 8:30 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by pocaracas - November 24, 2017 at 8:37 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 8:49 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 24, 2017 at 8:53 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by pocaracas - November 24, 2017 at 8:59 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 24, 2017 at 11:12 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 24, 2017 at 11:57 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 12:07 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by brewer - November 24, 2017 at 7:33 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 24, 2017 at 8:49 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 24, 2017 at 8:52 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 9:26 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2017 at 11:20 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Grand Nudger - November 24, 2017 at 10:22 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by vorlon13 - November 24, 2017 at 10:31 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2017 at 1:46 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2017 at 3:41 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Aegon - November 24, 2017 at 3:51 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 24, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Aegon - November 25, 2017 at 12:20 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 25, 2017 at 2:09 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Aegon - November 25, 2017 at 4:00 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 25, 2017 at 6:05 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Aegon - November 25, 2017 at 10:46 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 24, 2017 at 9:26 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by WinterHold - November 25, 2017 at 7:33 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 25, 2017 at 7:37 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by WinterHold - November 25, 2017 at 7:53 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 25, 2017 at 8:10 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by WinterHold - November 25, 2017 at 8:59 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 25, 2017 at 1:15 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by WinterHold - November 26, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by DLJ - November 26, 2017 at 1:36 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 25, 2017 at 5:56 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 25, 2017 at 6:04 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Catholic_Lady - November 25, 2017 at 12:23 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 25, 2017 at 12:48 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Minimalist - November 25, 2017 at 1:17 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 25, 2017 at 1:57 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by WinterHold - November 26, 2017 at 2:11 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 25, 2017 at 9:16 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Grand Nudger - November 25, 2017 at 10:06 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 25, 2017 at 10:34 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Grand Nudger - November 25, 2017 at 11:57 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 26, 2017 at 12:26 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Grand Nudger - November 26, 2017 at 12:39 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 26, 2017 at 1:06 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by chorlton - November 26, 2017 at 1:23 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 26, 2017 at 1:30 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by chorlton - November 26, 2017 at 1:34 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 26, 2017 at 1:35 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by chorlton - November 26, 2017 at 1:37 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 26, 2017 at 10:03 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Patrick33 - November 26, 2017 at 5:00 am
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Anomalocaris - November 26, 2017 at 8:00 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by Whateverist - November 26, 2017 at 8:02 pm
RE: What is your opinion about Communism? - by The Grand Nudger - November 26, 2017 at 10:04 pm

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