RE: Still a Christian - ask me questions/tell me about yourselves
November 25, 2017 at 4:57 pm
(This post was last modified: November 25, 2017 at 5:13 pm by speedyj1992.)
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I don't think length of time affects if something is a crisis of faith or something else. I think what the person actually believes, does.
Someone can be angry at God for most of their adult lives, and call themselves an atheist, then have a death bed "conversion", but since they believed in God that whole time, they didn't really ever convert either way, they just had a very long crisis of faith.
This isn't to say it never happens, BTW, just that I think it is much, much rarer than people state. Also, converting on your death bed just doesn't cut it for me. Fear of death a VERY strong emotional component. If someone hopes there is a God when they finally realize they are actually mortal, and the other option is probably to wink out of existence...yeah. It's not surprising that some people claw for that belief out of desperate fear. It isn't rational, or true, belief.
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That's some good food for thought, thank you for bringing that up. Okay, what do you think about the last point I made - do you agree that you think we should be able to put people before beliefs and care even when we disagree?
That's some good food for thought, thank you for bringing that up. Okay, what do you think about the last point I made - do you agree that you think we should be able to put people before beliefs and care even when we disagree?
Bluntly speaking (and there was another question someone asked that this applies to as well), it doesn't matter whether or not I think it was wrong. God delivers judgment to whom He will deliver judgment to in the way He will deliver judgment. Not for me to question because God knows more about what someone is truly guilty of than we do, which is why we aren't supposed to be judgmental in situations like this (see Matthew 7:1, and on a bit into the rest of the chapter). It's also hard to know when something is the result of God's judgment or sin in the world, which is why I can't stand when some Christians say natural disasters were meant to be judgment for some group of people or another. They have NO way of knowing that and have COMPLETELY missed the point of God being beyond us! Faith in God goes beyond believing in His existence - it means trusting that He's as good as He and the Bible says He is.
Sometimes that means seeing examples of God's judgment and taking a step back from what makes sense to us in the moment, or possibly long-term. Don't get me wrong, I've questioned God's judgment with stuff that you guys have brought up, which I don't think is wrong. What I'm applying more is not immediately saying that God is awful or not real because I don't understand why something happened or because I don't agree with it from my own, HIGHLY limited understanding. Which is really difficult, but also actually very freeing.
That's very appreciated - there's quite a bit to my story, actually. My parents divorced when I was 5, and my mom ended up taking me to the other side of the country from my dad. I didn't fit in with the kids there (I can't even say I'm the type who goes somewhere and just "fits in"), and I had some pretty severe issues with my mom. I was raised in the Christian Science church, which is neither Christian nor contains any actual science or even pseudoscience. When I rebelled against God because I didn't find within that church or from my mom the answers to why I was in pain, or any comfort beyond vague promises (unfortunately how some Christians respond these days, and I try really hard not to be one of them), I tried to leave. Even though heaven and hell are not considered literal in the CSC (yes, they use the Bible, but it's basically the abridged version with this one woman's ideas, to the point where it's not even really the same book), my mom refused to let me leave it for awhile.
Those next four years were lonely and hard, especially as I worked to switch custody to live with my dad permanently. My mind started to get more entranced with what I saw in the universe, the beauty that I didn't (and still don't) think could be at all accidental. Something about me was still convinced that there was truth in the Bible, even if I wasn't at the point where I was ready to accept the whole thing as truth. So, at 19, I started attending a Christian church, and my life has been transformed for the better.
That was 6 years ago, and I'd love to go more in detail about my journey since then, if you'll hear it.
I don't think length of time affects if something is a crisis of faith or something else. I think what the person actually believes, does.
Someone can be angry at God for most of their adult lives, and call themselves an atheist, then have a death bed "conversion", but since they believed in God that whole time, they didn't really ever convert either way, they just had a very long crisis of faith.
This isn't to say it never happens, BTW, just that I think it is much, much rarer than people state. Also, converting on your death bed just doesn't cut it for me. Fear of death a VERY strong emotional component. If someone hopes there is a God when they finally realize they are actually mortal, and the other option is probably to wink out of existence...yeah. It's not surprising that some people claw for that belief out of desperate fear. It isn't rational, or true, belief.
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That's some good food for thought, thank you for bringing that up. Okay, what do you think about the last point I made - do you agree that you think we should be able to put people before beliefs and care even when we disagree?
(November 24, 2017 at 3:57 pm)Aroura Wrote: [quote='speedyj1992' pid='1662739' dateline='1511541930']
This isn't to say it never happens, BTW, just that I think it is much, much rarer than people state. Also, converting on your death bed just doesn't cut it for me. Fear of death a VERY strong emotional component. If someone hopes there is a God when they finally realize they are actually mortal, and the other option is probably to wink out of existence...yeah. It's not surprising that some people claw for that belief out of desperate fear. It isn't rational, or true, belief.
That's some good food for thought, thank you for bringing that up. Okay, what do you think about the last point I made - do you agree that you think we should be able to put people before beliefs and care even when we disagree?
(November 24, 2017 at 1:17 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I was actually still commenting on your penchant for destroying something when it turns. Though, another question arises from your response.
Is there anything..anything at all, in the ot or the nt that you -aren't- ready to make excuses for? That you think god just flat out got wrong?
Bluntly speaking (and there was another question someone asked that this applies to as well), it doesn't matter whether or not I think it was wrong. God delivers judgment to whom He will deliver judgment to in the way He will deliver judgment. Not for me to question because God knows more about what someone is truly guilty of than we do, which is why we aren't supposed to be judgmental in situations like this (see Matthew 7:1, and on a bit into the rest of the chapter). It's also hard to know when something is the result of God's judgment or sin in the world, which is why I can't stand when some Christians say natural disasters were meant to be judgment for some group of people or another. They have NO way of knowing that and have COMPLETELY missed the point of God being beyond us! Faith in God goes beyond believing in His existence - it means trusting that He's as good as He and the Bible says He is.
Sometimes that means seeing examples of God's judgment and taking a step back from what makes sense to us in the moment, or possibly long-term. Don't get me wrong, I've questioned God's judgment with stuff that you guys have brought up, which I don't think is wrong. What I'm applying more is not immediately saying that God is awful or not real because I don't understand why something happened or because I don't agree with it from my own, HIGHLY limited understanding. Which is really difficult, but also actually very freeing.
(November 24, 2017 at 2:19 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: Thanks for answering that, speedy. Yes, I'm ''willing'' to hear.
That's very appreciated - there's quite a bit to my story, actually. My parents divorced when I was 5, and my mom ended up taking me to the other side of the country from my dad. I didn't fit in with the kids there (I can't even say I'm the type who goes somewhere and just "fits in"), and I had some pretty severe issues with my mom. I was raised in the Christian Science church, which is neither Christian nor contains any actual science or even pseudoscience. When I rebelled against God because I didn't find within that church or from my mom the answers to why I was in pain, or any comfort beyond vague promises (unfortunately how some Christians respond these days, and I try really hard not to be one of them), I tried to leave. Even though heaven and hell are not considered literal in the CSC (yes, they use the Bible, but it's basically the abridged version with this one woman's ideas, to the point where it's not even really the same book), my mom refused to let me leave it for awhile.
Those next four years were lonely and hard, especially as I worked to switch custody to live with my dad permanently. My mind started to get more entranced with what I saw in the universe, the beauty that I didn't (and still don't) think could be at all accidental. Something about me was still convinced that there was truth in the Bible, even if I wasn't at the point where I was ready to accept the whole thing as truth. So, at 19, I started attending a Christian church, and my life has been transformed for the better.
That was 6 years ago, and I'd love to go more in detail about my journey since then, if you'll hear it.
