How to answer "I know that I know that I know"?

[riaaneloff]

The same first post was also made at The Thinking Atheist.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...pid1281876

Yup, it was me.  I would appreciate some help from SOMEONE!?  EVERYONE, but EVERYONE I know or have contact with are Christians.  (Duh, 25 years full-time ministry...48 years as a pastor's son). They are not gonna help.  I've been walking with these questions for months and am truly in a place where I want this buddy of mine to see the light.  The shitty thing is:  I'm drowning here, and instead of putting out a hand and saying:  chill dude, we gotcha...a lot of the guys of at that other forum are stepping on my face, stuffing me deeper under water with a "suck on that" just for fun!

Anyways...ya....some guys have given some great answers, and that's appreciated.

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Um........ do we have a POE and I got sucked in?

Nope

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OBVIOUSLY I did not think or realize I was pretending?!  Come on!  That very question is stupid.  How could I believe that god's holy spirit has now filled me to overflowing, while I CLEARLY REALIZE I'm PRETENDING!?

In the moment, and for the next roughly 30 years, I honestly believed that what was happening was the holy spirit.

In fact, even now that my de-conversion is complete for about 6 months, I can still, at will, speak in tongues freely and easily.  THAT VERY FACT is, to me, even more evidence that speaking in tongues is not anything supernatural or holy spirit inspired.  Although, many christians would argue "god said he would never take his holy spirit from us....so that's why you can still speak in tongues".  That argument fails in my case, since there is one unforgivable sin:  denying the holy spirit, and I have done this audibly, consciously and clearly, and yet, I still am able. at any time, to pull up my parlor trick of speaking in tongues.  :-)

Thanks forrrrr the other points, though ;-)

From my point it's not a stupid question. If you had not been exposed to others speaking in tongues, would you have spoken in tongues?

Or do you consider it stupid because you now realize it was pretending?

Do you consider your current "at will" speaking in tongues to be man made?

The argument, from scripture (if you believe scripture), for speaking in tongues is actually very sound, and makes it extremely simple and easy.  I do believe being exposed to others speaking in tongues makes it easier.  I do believe that even had I NOT been exposed to others speaking in tongues, I may still have spoken, as I have many testimonies of people who had read books about the baptism in the holy spirit, and, evn though being entirely isolated, they spoke in tongues right there on their own.

Again, you see...the argument FOR speaking in tongues, once laid out plainly (presupposing you BELIEVE scripture), is actually quite compelling and then simple to implement.

Getting back to why I thought the question is stupid:  no one in their right mind would consciously believe something supernatural is happening to them WHILE they consciously realize they are pretending it.  It makes no sense.  It's like being an atheist and "trying to believe", or forcing yourself to believe.  You cannot...since, the REASON you don't believe, is that there is no proper evidence.  Conversely, if I am convinced that something supernatural is taking place, how in hell can I realize I'm pretending.  THE MOMENT I realize I'm pretending, I automatically KNOW something supernatural isn't happening to me.  This is why I believe the question to be nonsensical.

My current speaking is FOR SURE man-made, no doubt - again, the question doesn't seem to make sense?  If I do not believe there is any supernatural being or any god or any holy spirit, who/what other than ME would be making the "speaking"?  I think most people don't/can't do this because of the awkwardness factor, BUT, since I never HAD the awkwardness factor, since I was in a group of people all doing it, and since I then believed it was supernatural, it was not THAT awkward anymore.

Later I was taught that it is something one should practise daily, and even something that we should be able to do at will whenever we need to or want to.  Thus, it became something that is not as awkward anymore.  I will not, and do not sit around speaking in tongues, as I now realize it is NOT a supernatural thing, but, when I say I am able to do it at will, I mean that I TESTED it after my de-conversion from christian to atheist.  Just to see what gives.  And, for sure, I can do it at will.

One thing that I DO find strange (but that is for another post...in fact, I would actually like to ask this to the guys on The Atheist Experience) is the fact that when I was a believer, we were taught that speaking in tongues "builds you up".  And, in a sense, it gave me energy, positivity, confidence (much like a power stance/position when you're delivering a speak or a presentation or a sales pitch) etc etc etc whenever I used it...and, after my de-conversion, when trying it several times, I still experience the same positive energy, confidence, even being moved to tears (I have no friggin IDEA why, but yes, that still does happen).  It may just be a programmed response, much like Pavlov's dogs, or like Neuro-Linguistic-Programming?  But that's why I'd like to ask that at some point to folks who understand the brain and consciousness better than I do  :-)